Big Burke announcement

[River19]

So they invested in some new guns, didn't significantly upgrade their pump capacity (or did they?) and no one ever thought "hey the one large failure mode we can control is the size of our holding pond and water supply."?

Seriously, can't control the weather, but you can control how much water you stockpile in the off season to feed your guns when the temps allow you to make snow.

What good is a military with tons of new guns but without ammo? Ineffective would be a word for it.

Without mother Nature cooperating in the 10 days before Christmas, there is an actual possibility of less skiing than last year. But time will tell.

So what are people going to be doing on the hotel opening weekend? Wonder what the cancellation policy is.....

 

[VTKilarney]

It has been said many times before in this thread: If you want to build a destination resort hotel, you need to make sure that the necessary infrastructure is in place before the hotel opens. Clearly Ary did not grasp this VERY simple concept.

People are coming to ski, not to stay in a hotel. You need to make sure that you can deliver a consistent skiing product before you open the hotel.

 

[BenedictGomez]

People are coming to ski, not to stay in a hotel. You need to make sure that you can deliver a consistent skiing product before you open the hotel.

The hotel was built with "free" money. And "free" money alleviates a business (at least temporarily) of the horrible burden (sarcasm) of making rational, responsible, intelligent financial (and other) decisions.

 

[thetrailboss]

:roll:

OK, the joke is over. Please bring Bobby Ginn back.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

Well, by the looks of the radar, Mother nature is sending a little help for the pond and river. Hope it's enough to get things running again.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

...And I agree. They should have been looking at, and applying for permits to enlarge the pond, and perhaps add others. Especially while all the heavy equipment is there anyhow. Seems like cheap no-brainer.

 

[oldtimer]

looks warm and mostly dry for at least 2 more weeks. Where are the folks who understood how to keep the pond full? oh yea, driven away by unbridled arrogance and incompetence..................... i could go on, but I need to go back to work so I can afford lift tickets at other hills while I wait to use my expensive season pass.

 

[VTKilarney]

Dang... the long term forecast looks horrible. If they can pull off a December 11th opening, it looks like there is a very good chance that they will have to run shuttles from Sherburne.

The big question is whether or not they have enough snow already made on the parts of the mountain that currently have snow. If not, it will be all they can do to open by December 11th.

 

[VTKilarney]

This is interesting...

Earlier this morning I was able to pull up several room categories that were available for the night of December 11th.

As of now nothing comes up.

 

[VTKilarney]

Some quotes for your enjoyment taken from here:
http://qburke.com/blog/sample-blog-entry/

"This new pump station will ensure more trails will be open earlier in a typical season, which is good news for our season pass holders and guests of the Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center." said Bill Stenger, general partner of the new facility that is scheduled to open this December.

"Our skiers and riders will appreciate this first phase as it will allow us to open earlier and with more terrain." said Quiros.

 

[thetrailboss]

...And I agree. They should have been looking at, and applying for permits to enlarge the pond, and perhaps add others. Especially while all the heavy equipment is there anyhow. Seems like cheap no-brainer.

They won't because (a) they are not smart enough to figure out that they need to add a pond, and (b) since it can't be funded by free money they won't do it. Sad because they really do need to step up their snowmaking.

 

[thetrailboss]

Some quotes for your enjoyment taken from here:
http://qburke.com/blog/sample-blog-entry/

"This new pump station will ensure more trails will be open earlier in a typical season, which is good news for our season pass holders and guests of the Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center." said Bill Stenger, general partner of the new facility that is scheduled to open this December.

"Our skiers and riders will appreciate this first phase as it will allow us to open earlier and with more terrain." said Quiros.

Yeah I don't think that Bill said that or checked it because he is not a "general partner" of the mountain.

 

[thetrailboss]

Some quotes for your enjoyment taken from here:
http://qburke.com/blog/sample-blog-entry/

"This new pump station will ensure more trails will be open earlier in a typical season, which is good news for our season pass holders and guests of the Q Burke Hotel and Conference Center." said Bill Stenger, general partner of the new facility that is scheduled to open this December.

"Our skiers and riders will appreciate this first phase as it will allow us to open earlier and with more terrain." said Quiros.

Yeah I don't think that Bill said that or checked it because he is not a "general partner" of the mountain.

 

[VTKilarney]

Yeah I don't think that Bill said that or checked it because he is not a "general partner" of the mountain.

The press release referred to him being a general partner of the hotel, not the mountain.


.

 

[zeke]

Yeah I don't think that Bill said that or checked it because he is not a "general partner" of the mountain.

i think he'd say anything to keep the money flowing and the construction going. and why check for accuracy of reporting when you're gonna want plausible deniability in the future when the truth becomes obvious?

is there anything either quiros (sr or jr, pick one) or stenger could say that anyone should believe anymore? especially when it comes to burke mtn?

 

[River19]

The press release referred to him being a general partner of the hotel, not the mountain.


.

You mean the hotel without any activities except possibly a gym and pool? as in, there will be no skiing available.....

This is like a Monty Python skit.......like the trojan rabbit....

"...and the new guns will give us more capacity to get the slopes open earlier...."

"That is brilliant !!! what is the snow made of sir?"

"It's made of water you dummy."

"OK sir, but if the snow you want to shoot from the new guns is made from water, where will we get the water?"

"From the holding pond right over there....."

[Insert picture of dry pond with pipes]

"Oh......crap......."

 

[from_the_NEK]

So they invested in some new guns, didn't significantly upgrade their pump capacity (or did they?) and no one ever thought "hey the one large failure mode we can control is the size of our holding pond and water supply."?

The snow making pond is just under an acre in size and 3-4' deep (according to sources). Just for the hell of it, I figured out the size of other snowmaking ponds around the state. I may have combined too many ponds and missed some here and there but the result is pretty stark. Of course depth plays a factor as well but I don't figure that too many ponds are shallower than Burke's. This would be the second time in two years that snowmaking has been majorly restricted by low water in the Passumpsic. A new large holding pond over on Dashney Rd sounds like a good idea to me.

SKI AREA NAME	Pond Area (Acres)
Okemo Total (2 ponds)	25.200
Stratton	16.313
Sugarbush Total (2 ponds)	12.487
Sugarbush South-Main	11.941
Stowe	10.796
Mt Snow	8.781
Killington Total (2 ponds)	7.746
Bromley	4.542
Smuggs Total (2 ponds)	4.122
Haystack	3.544
Jay Peak	3.418
Pico Total (2 ponds)	2.227
Magic	1.949
Bolton Total (3 ponds)	1.838
QBurke Mtn	0.927
Middlebury Total (2 ponds)	0.903
Ascutney	0.656
Sugarbush North	0.546

 

[River19]

A one acre "pond" that is 3-4' deep?

Seems more like a holding puddle.....

I assume it is 3-4' at full capacity, I bet normally it is 2-3' deep......

 

[zeke]

i know a lot of people on here have taken a "something had to change" position with the old management team. but they didn't seem to have these kinds of snowmaking/water issues and could put out a decent product for x-mas week. and that's without the supposed upgrades to snowmaking they've claimed the last two seasons.

seems to me jr got his early mantra of "doing more with less" flipped and he's actually "doing less with more" than the previous team.

unless, of course, the less he was referring to was knowledge and experience. if that's the case, i'm not sure what the more is?

 

[thetrailboss]

I always thought that the Pond as deeper than that. And, FWIW, that list is a bit deceiving because both Burke and Sugarbush North's ponds are refilled from other sources.