Big Burke announcement

[AdironRider]

I still don't get why everyone is so defensive of the guys they laid off. Burke has failed how many times over (in the eyes of ownership)? At some point you need to cut the leash and start anew. They clearly weren't hacking it.

 

[the original trailboss]

I've been listening, so to speak, to the last round of comments and would like to respond to some of that. Burke has traditionally opened "around" the middle of December, and, in the past several years, Mother Nature has made that difficult to the point that one season we barely made a Christmas opening. In my view, there is no legitimate reason to open Burke any earlier just based on the weather, and on the fact that passholders are the only early season customers there, by and large. As to the management changes, a closer look shows that the head Q simply eliminated an entire layer of management in favor of a direct link between himself and the actual department heads. That plan deserves an opportunity to succeed or fail. As to overall staff reductions, I personally believe that time and reality will eventually put that back into perspective as well. Snowmaking began in earnest on Lower Warren's Way on Sunday, and based on the forecast at the time was scheduled to run through Wednesday night and resume Friday morning with a Dec 3 goal for use of that trail by Burke Mountain Academy. Hopefully, the past 24 hours won't screw up that plan totally. As a longtime Burkie and Burke watcher, it would be easy to go negative if I focused on a few, relatively minor, issues (and yes, the new bear sucks!) but I've got my fingers crossed that Burke's "character and personality" will rise above that - training new owners is a tough task!

 

[zeke]

training new owners is a tough task!

training made tougher by eliminating that entire "layer" of management who had been there and understood (and in some cases maybe helped shape) Burke's "character and personality". tough to cross your fingers and hope when everyone at that level who didn't get fired seems to have quit, leaving just the younger, less experienced staff and a CEO who has never had a job in the industry. a CEO who, instead of keeping any managers who understood that history around to learn from for financial reasons, decided to spend money on seemingly pointless upgrades in the tamarack, a remodeled first level sherburne lodge and a shiny new logo with his initials on it–and, i'm assuming all new signage with that shiny new logo and new tamarack name as well.

may seem like that's "going negative" to some. to me, those are the facts as I understand them. and if the facts presented feel negative, well, again–makes it tough to just cross your fingers and hope.

 

[the original trailboss]

I'm not sure I can agree with that - all of the current "managers" have 15 + years of Burke experience. And I guess your comments beg the question: What would you do, or have done, to take Burke to survival level, and beyond?

 

[kingdom-tele]

Burke has had an identity crisis with the past "unsuccessful" owners. The mountain as a ski hill is lucky to draw 100K and averages much lower. It either needed to be run accordingly, cutting costs trying to compete with "resorts" or, like it or not, get a totally new identity, one unrelated to skiing. It will be something to see them double the skier visits and still maintain their "character and personality". Its a mountain that caters to no one, not enough snow, not enough "expert" terrain, nothing to brag about in the middle of a dark empty region of VT, its just good skiing with good people. Its apparent the market needs something else, well, we're getting a lot of something else, people cried it was failing and needed this to survive and now cry its not the same. Hows that saying about cake and eating it too go?

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Its gonna be a good one to watch.

 

[zeke]

like i said–the facts as i understand them. i was told that basically the entire administration building had been emptied out. so i could be wrong about the managers who didn't work in that building–ski patrol, lifties, bar managers, etc. but do you really think they're gonna speak up about bad decisions and maintaining the culture after their bosses–some of whom had been on mountain–were dumped? would be surprising to me, but who knows?

 

[the original trailboss]

Not to belabor the point but the new managers are capable of expressing their opinions..... On another note, the Caledonian Record posted a story yesterday concerning season preparations at Q Burke (yep, it was in the headline!). All references to the ski area were Q Burke or Q Burke Mountain - I sure hope they get over that..............

 

[dlague]

Well I did not like the changes at Jay Peak at first and got use to it. I do not like the "Q" but I am sure after a season or two it will become common place. I grew up on Jay and Burke so as a pseudo local it is weird! Maybe they want people to recognize there has been a change and this makes it clear!

 

[deadheadskier]

Not to belabor the point but the new managers are capable of expressing their opinions..... On another note, the Caledonian Record posted a story yesterday concerning season preparations at Q Burke (yep, it was in the headline!). All references to the ski area were Q Burke or Q Burke Mountain - I sure hope they get over that..............

....the sooner the better

I'm not sure I'm aware of a ski resort whether relatively new or historic that has incorporated an owner's name into its title. Maybe it exists somewhere, but I just find it so completely arrogant. Why? Because the identity of a ski mountain is long lasting beyond any current ownership. Burke was there before the "Q" family and will exist long after the "Q" family is gone.

Think of what the reaction would be if an older, more historic and better known ski area than Burke did the same thing. What if John Kircher decided to change the name of Sugarloaf to "K" Sugarloaf when Boyne resorts bought the mountain? What if the Crown family decided to change the name of Aspen to "C" Aspen when they bought the area in 1993? The reaction from the long time visitors to those areas would be extremely unfavorable. I have to imagine that this is also the case up in the NEK.

To me the decision to change the name really shows the Quoros family's lack of experience and understanding of the ski industry and its culture.

 

[crank]

It is never about the owners but about the product.

 

[DoublePlanker]

The Q in the name seems ridiculous. I fear the management decisions will not be good.

 

[Cannonball]

Is Q-Burke in the AFC East or AFC North? I didn't even know they were in the NFL until I saw the new logo.

 

[Cannonball]

In my view, there is no legitimate reason to open Burke any earlier just based on the weather, and on the fact that passholders are the only early season customers there, by and large.

Whether this is true or not, it's probably not the best thing to say out loud if you have any interest at all in keeping pass holders as customers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[thetrailboss]

Bump. Real dick move here. Sorry Andrew, but hope you can walk this one back before it really sinks everything.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/126753-Some-news-from-the-Kingdom

 

[from_the_NEK]

I'll cross post this here too...A very sad day indeed.
I heard about this on the radio this morning but I hadn't read the article yet. I got a sick feeling in my stomach hearing it but I can't say I'm completely surprised.

I'm starting to think the Quiros believe they can turn Burke into a destination resort without help and support of the local communities. Once they get their hotel/lodges and Olympic Pool and fancy Tennis facility built, they will no longer need to put up with the dirt bag MTB'rs that have turned the town around in the last 10 years. They will have people travelling here from all over the world to use their facilities.

This entire situation is a giant middle finger to the locals. I can't see anyone really wanting to go work there at this rate.

I really hope Lyndon Outing Club gets some decent snow this year.

 

[snoseek]

I damn near spat my coffee up when I read this. KT is so unique at what they do, many would argue the best...tying together a local community for the sake of recreation and ultimately business. The difference on any random summer day in town from 15 years ago and now is staggering. The MTB community has made that town IMO. cutting ties over a few bucks seems so foolish. also of note: A lot of people are riding really expensive bikes...sometimes 5k or more...this seems like a bad move to alienate those people. If ya got 5k to drop on a bike you MIGHT have some disposable income. It's snowing, I should go skiing now

 

[thetrailboss]

Without KT, who will stay in the new hotel? Sure, maybe some will come once, but when they hear about this issue, it will be their last stay. Tripping over a quarter to pick up a penny.

 

[zeke]

Without KT, who will stay in the new hotel?

the massive Vermont diving and tennis community

 

[thetrailboss]

the massive Vermont diving and tennis community

Ah yes, forgot about that. Thanks! :lol:

 

[Zand]

One step closer to NELSAP every day. Why do I get the feeling Jay bought it just to run it dry and get rid of any competition to Jay?