Big Burke announcement

[VTKilarney]

and once again you are choosing to blame Stenger and Quiros here. I blame the state.

Then you clearly have no clue.



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[Big Wave Dave]

For a NORMAL ski resort, I would agree that things should be on the up and up now. For these guys, nope. It's because of their actions. You mention KT as a draw--it certainly is. But the biking community is tight and they certainly know about how Q burned bridges BIG TIME with KT. Also most of the bike traffic are into dirtbagging it. As in camping or cheap places to stay. Not the QHotel. So it remains to see what happens with the Hotel.

As to skier visits, conventional wisdom would certainly be "build it and they will come." But when one considers WHO skis at Burke you, and when you go up there on an average day, you used to see a hell of a lot of green plates and NH plates. I say used to because the bulk of the traffic was locals. Yeah, the same locals who Q has pissed off numerous times. The idea that Q will just get folks to come from Boston or NYC to fill the gap is shortsighted. For decades that was the idea. "After the interstate is done we will be in great shape" then became, "well, after we build more condos we will be in great shape," then it became, "well, put in a HSQ and we will get more folks", etc. The ski market is very, very tight. There is a saturation of ski areas for such a small market. So what he is learning is what we all knew--no, folks are not going to drive further for Q.

Ideally you'd keep your local market and add more visitors to it to get to the coveted 100k skier day mark and beyond. You don't just burn your entire base and expect to rebuild it with visiting traffic overnight. Or as we say in Vermont, "you don't cut off your nose to spite your face."

Could not agree more with your historical description here, pretty accurate. But nobody liked Ary last year either and skier visits were flat not down, again with a terrible x-mas w. This year one could not make such an easy comparison because skier visits will be way down, and likely season pass sales also which always decline at every ski area after poor snow years. Therefore, I conjecture the hotel, will increase skier visits, and fills the hole that has universally (pre Quiros) be considered Burkes weakness- lack of onslope beds.

So, I take your point on local visits but insist you agree with mine on Burke having mitigated its historicallly largest issue (once the damn thing opens).

As to how to mend fences with the town, would love to see people throw some ideas out on what needs to be done. Lets change the tone here people and all get along for a post or two

 

[Big Wave Dave]

ok. does Jerry Davis have a clue? please explain why not, along with all details of your superior knowledge to the guy owed the damn money.

 

[thetrailboss]

sure. So how many of the weddings booked at the hotel this summer have cancelled in light of this?

and once again you are choosing to blame Stenger and Quiros here. I blame the state, as does the contractor. Why do you not agree with Jerry Davis that this is a state caused issue?

Who says those whose reservations were cancelled don't blame the state also? Heck, if I was Burke PR I would just send them the Cal Record article.

time will tell but like I have before, bet ya a beer at the Tamarak (sorry, Tiki Bar) that hotel is jammed next winter. My wife also has a friend on the Burke planning board and for what its worth, the hotel was always expected to produce more revenue in summer than winter. All is not hopeless with a single lost winter.

Whoa, whoa there. You are taking the Stenger line that the State is to blame for the delays to the Hotel? Stenger and Peak CM's position was trotted out in November/December. Since then we have learned that the REAL reason why they are not open is that Peak CM is owed over $1 million by Q and that Q has run out of money. THAT IS NOT THE STATE'S FAULT. They underfunded it and now can't pay it off. How is the State responsible for that? Jerry Davis told the CR that Q owes him money and he won't turn over the keys. That's the reason for the recent delay and now why Stenger is doing the infamous, "well, I will pay you off over the next X weeks" line.

 

[thetrailboss]

Could not agree more with your historical description here, pretty accurate. But nobody liked Ary last year either and skier visits were flat not down, again with a terrible x-mas w. This year one could not make such an easy comparison because skier visits will be way down, and likely season pass sales also which always decline at every ski area after poor snow years. Therefore, I conjecture the hotel, will increase skier visits, and fills the hole that has universally (pre Quiros) be considered Burkes weakness- lack of onslope beds.

I would be surprised if their visits, over say the past five years, were flat last year. Perhaps they are. About the 70k range. I know that folks believe that business is way down over the period of time that Q has run it. This year will not be an accurate depiction because of the weather as you said. But it might not have been quite as bad as it has been.

As to how to mend fences with the town, would love to see people throw some ideas out on what needs to be done. Lets change the tone here people and all get along for a post or two

We've kicked this around a lot....not recently, but in the past. Here's my list:

1. Send Junior to do something else. Do a mea culpa and hire a real resort manager to run the place.

2. Give said manager the resources, and room, to do the job right.

3. Admit that the community is crucial to the mountain's success and, like the previous regime, try to bring them back into things.

4. Drop the stupid Q.

5. Bring snowmaking capacity to where it USED to be and increase it.

6. Be humble. Very humble and hospitable.

 

[farlep99]

I would be surprised if their visits, over say the past five years, were flat last year. Perhaps they are. About the 70k range. I know that folks believe that business is way down over the period of time that Q has run it. This year will not be an accurate depiction because of the weather as you said. But it might not have been quite as bad as it has been.



We've kicked this around a lot....not recently, but in the past. Here's my list:

1. Send Junior to do something else. Do a mea culpa and hire a real resort manager to run the place.

2. Give said manager the resources, and room, to do the job right.

3. Admit that the community is crucial to the mountain's success and, like the previous regime, try to bring them back into things.

4. Drop the stupid Q.

5. Bring snowmaking capacity to where it USED to be and increase it.

6. Be humble. Very humble and hospitable.

I'd move #4 to #1.

 

[freeski]

Dropping the "Q" would go a long way.

 

[yeggous]

Dropping the "Q" would go a long way.

That's the truth.


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[farlep99]

Dropping the "Q" would go a long way.

Along those lines, from 30mins ago on FB, this is Ary's response to someone telling him that the "Q" is pretentious & they should lose it. The person's comment seemed out of the blue & unwarranted, but the response reeks of A-holeness:

Pretentious or not the "Q" has made a significant investment here which we should all embrace no matter how rough it may seem at times. This particular change and investment is a step forward. Burke Mountain as it stood before would probably be under new management or even shut down by now (again) if it wasn't for the significant capital investment the "Q" continues to make year-after-year in this place. History is nice to hold on to, but the future is where any business, place and for that matter person should focus their efforts and passion. Hopefully you'll choose to embrace the change and move forward with us.

 

[thetrailboss]

Dropping the "Q" would go a long way.

The negative impact from changing the name to "Q Burke" cannot be overestimated. True story: was at Alta a month ago and got talking to some guys visiting from Boston. Told them I was from Vermont and they asked where I skied. I said "Burke" and one guy says, "yeah, that's the place where the guy changed the name so to his, right? I'm not interested in going there. That tells me all I need to know about that asshole."

 

[freeski]

Ary sounds like a Q-Nazi.

 

[thetrailboss]

Along those lines, from 30mins ago on FB, this is Ary's response to someone telling him that the "Q" is pretentious & they should lose it. The person's comment seemed out of the blue & unwarranted, but the response reeks of A-holeness:

Pretentious or not the "Q" has made a significant investment here which we should all embrace no matter how rough it may seem at times. This particular change and investment is a step forward. Burke Mountain as it stood before would probably be under new management or even shut down by now (again) if it wasn't for the significant capital investment the "Q" continues to make year-after-year in this place. History is nice to hold on to, but the future is where any business, place and for that matter person should focus their efforts and passion. Hopefully you'll choose to embrace the change and move forward with us.

He just won't learn. His smartass remark back was also classic.

 

[Big Wave Dave]

Whoa, whoa there. You are taking the Stenger line that the State is to blame for the delays to the Hotel? Stenger and Peak CM's position was trotted out in November/December. Since then we have learned that the REAL reason why they are not open is that Peak CM is owed over $1 million by Q and that Q has run out of money. THAT IS NOT THE STATE'S FAULT. They underfunded it and now can't pay it off. How is the State responsible for that? Jerry Davis told the CR that Q owes him money and he won't turn over the keys. That's the reason for the recent delay and now why Stenger is doing the infamous, "well, I will pay you off over the next X weeks" line.

true. but like I said earlier- its barely underfunded if the percentages stated by Stenger and not contradicted by Davis are true (3% over budget/underfunded). And its also true, based on what has been reported (tell me, do you know different?) these funds are pledged from additional EB 5 investors- that is why Davis is blaming the state. Even if all the funds are in the account today, they still need to get approved.

Are you really going to hang Stenger over a 3% underfunding? Really? 3%. thats nothing.

And for the life of me I dont understand why you are questioning Davis when he says its the states fault. He would clearly be ready to move forward on the IOU's if the state wasn't involved.

'nuff said, its been fun but other duties call. till the next time! and PRAY FOR SNOW.

 

[thetrailboss]

true. but like I said earlier- its barely underfunded if the percentages stated by Stenger and not contradicted by Davis are true (3% over budget/underfunded). And its also true, based on what has been reported (tell me, do you know different?) these funds are pledged from additional EB 5 investors- that is why Davis is blaming the state. Even if all the funds are in the account today, they still need to get approved.

Are you really going to hang Stenger over a 3% underfunding? Really? 3%. thats nothing.

And for the life of me I dont understand why you are questioning Davis when he says its the states fault. He would clearly be ready to move forward on the IOU's if the state wasn't involved.

'nuff said, its been fun but other duties call. till the next time! and PRAY FOR SNOW.

The last comment I saw in the press from Davis was that he was owed "over a million dollars" for the Hotel by Stenger and Q. The article then quoted an Email from the State to Stenger saying, "we gave you ALL of your money in escrow. You simply do not have enough in there. That's not our fault." I have not seen anything from Davis saying that the State is to blame, but he is not going to bite the hand that feeds him.

If it is 3% remaining than that is $1.5 million or so....or 3-4 new investors. If they have them, great. If not, not good. I have not heard anything to suggest that they DO have the investors and that the state is holding it up. If someone has the article post it here. Accepting Stenger and Q at their word: take it with a grain of salt.

 

[River19]

Trailboss.....your #1 item in the list.....Don't forget last year's crock of shit addressing Jr moving on and not being involved in day to day operations......so there was that......how did that lip service work out?

Change to "Q" is/was universally despised.....

As i asked multiple posts back......once the liens are cleared and the keys are handed over....what does success look like for the remainder of 2016 for the mountain?

Softly open the Qhotel early summer season, get their collective crap together from a service and F&B position.

Continue to plug away at the snowmaking ability....maybe second holding pond and additional pumping capacity....more FB posts in mid December 2016 exclaiming "25 gun blazing over night" would be a fail IMHO.

Operate the bike park to their full capability.....this is easy and they do a good job here save for kicking KT in the nutts which is unforgiveable....just to clarify, BWD, KT was here in 2000......they just celebrated their 20 year anny a year or so ago)

Figure out how to stop hacking down fences......only then can even entertain how to mend fences......removing Jr. and the "Q" are the first necessary steps.

Book up those weddings and knock those out of the park....I mean under promise and over deliver....blow them the frig away with service and quality.....

Come up with a great solution that appeals to muddy, thirsty and hungry bikers........and for cheaper than winter rates.....

Stop pissing people off and just operate a business roughly the way most owners would and maybe in a few years some locals will begin filtering up the hill with that skeptical NEK eye closely watching to make sure a Q-knife doesn't stab them in the soft spots.....

But WTF do I know...........

 

[yeggous]

Did anyone else get today's marketing email specifically mentioning the TamaraQ hours as "2pm-close"? It made me growl.

 

[freeski]

I think Q-Burke will contact AZ to offer free nights at the Q-Hotel with skiing for promoting the mountain.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I trust EB 5 over PE any day.

Oh dear..... lol

The State did a terrible job before 2014's complaints against Stenger and Q. Actually, they did NO oversight. How the Commissioner of the Department of Economic Development kept her job is beyond me. They had a clear conflict of interest there. Maybe there will be ultimately no harm in the end but we don't know.

It's beyond believable, until you realize that to fire people and truly investigate is to admit wrongdoing. There are also some extremely prominent pols who could get caught up in this too, so if there is any wrong-doing, it is in the best interest of virtually everyone involved to simply look the other way and sweep this deep under a rug.

Which is precisely why I have for eons stated that a Federal investigation will likely be the only way to get to the bottom of this. Also, the SEC investigation is still ongoing, and those can take several years. To all the people who think, "well, nobody has been arrested or anything so all must be fine" - they don't understand how SEC investigations work, or the fact it can take 2,3,5 years before black cars roll in and a photographed perp-walk commences.

The idea that Q will just get folks to come from Boston or NYC to fill the gap is shortsighted.

If you live in NYC, you're likely not skiing at Burke. Too many better, closer, options between you and the NEK.

Burke Mountain as it stood before would probably be under new management or even shut down by now (again) if it wasn't for the significant capital investment the "Q" continues to make year-after-year in this place.

Capital investment ≠ Free money.

 

[faQ]

Along those lines, from 30mins ago on FB, this is Ary's response to someone telling him that the "Q" is pretentious & they should lose it. The person's comment seemed out of the blue & unwarranted, but the response reeks of A-holeness:

Pretentious or not the "Q" has made a significant investment here which we should all embrace no matter how rough it may seem at times. This particular change and investment is a step forward. Burke Mountain as it stood before would probably be under new management or even shut down by now (again) if it wasn't for the significant capital investment the "Q" continues to make year-after-year in this place. History is nice to hold on to, but the future is where any business, place and for that matter person should focus their efforts and passion. Hopefully you'll choose to embrace the change and move forward with us.

I missed the reply. What was it?


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[from_the_NEK]

I missed the reply. What was it?

"Pretentious or not the "Q" has made a significant investment here which we should all embrace no matter how rough it may seem at times. This particular change and investment is a step forward. Burke Mountain as it stood before would probably be under new management or even shut down by now (again) if it wasn't for the significant capital investment the "Q" continues to make year-after-year in this place. History is nice to hold on to, but the future is where any business, place and for that matter person should focus their efforts and passion. Hopefully you'll choose to embrace the change and move forward with us."