Big Burke announcement

[machski]

What's sad is they're going to sink $5M into this crappy old hulk that results in subpar skiing, whereas they could, for relatively similar funds, do a high speed quad and a short double (like they used to have years ago) combo that would result in much better skiing.

Except that kills the summit for hosting weddings/dinners/etc. You would make the summit ski access only with that plan. I have to imagine that is not the "vision" the actual players have for the resort/summit.

 

[cdskier]

Except that kills the summit for hosting weddings/dinners/etc. You would make the summit ski access only with that plan. I have to imagine that is not the "vision" the actual players have for the resort/summit.

Not really...other resorts use regular chairlifts to get people up the mountain for weddings. It is certainly doable.

 

[deadheadskier]

Doable, but not as easily marketable. Brides tend to have a vision of a "dream wedding." When you switch the scenario from guests riding up in an enclosed Tram to a chairlift ride in the rain perhaps they look at a more reliable location like Stowe, Killington or Stratton.

You can obviously sell an indoor backup location as an alternative, but that takes away a venue that you can sell a second wedding at.

 

[jimmck]

Doable, but not as easily marketable. Brides tend to have a vision of a "dream wedding." When you switch the scenario from guests riding up in an enclosed Tram to a chairlift ride in the rain perhaps they look at a more reliable location like Stowe, Killington or Stratton.

You can obviously sell an indoor backup location as an alternative, but that takes away a venue that you can sell a second wedding at.

Tell Sugarbush it's not easily marketable. I believe they booked close to 30 weddings last year.

 

[deadheadskier]

I said not easily AS marketable. When Sugarbush sells those weddings with the chairlift rides I guarantee you they also have indoor backup locations they set aside unless you have a really laid back group who will tolerate rain. The wedding party has to pay for that extra indoor space. The rental fees for that extra space is usually far less revenue than what the resort would get from selling it for a second event.

I make these comments having run catering operations for 300+ weddings at both ski resorts and urban hotels.

Having the Tram available essentially doubles your wedding venue space over selling a package with a chairlift ride.

 

[thetrailboss]

Tell Sugarbush it's not easily marketable. I believe they booked close to 30 weddings last year.

Skiers have no issue with chairlifts. Sugarbush weddings are geared towards more of a skier crowd. Non skiers prefer Trams or Gondolas. Height is a major reason.


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[BenedictGomez]

I make these comments having run catering operations for 300+ weddings at both ski resorts and urban hotels.

Can you ballpark the percentage of top-line revenue summit weddings represent? I wouldnt have guessed it's that big of a deal.

 

[thetrailboss]

Can you ballpark the percentage of top-line revenue summit weddings represent? I wouldnt have guessed it's that big of a deal.

Oh weddings are BIG business in Vermont.


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[cdskier]

Skiers have no issue with chairlifts. Sugarbush weddings are geared towards more of a skier crowd. Non skiers prefer Trams or Gondolas. Height is a major reason.

Not so sure I agree with that. I know people that just love Vermont in the summer and don't ski but still thought it was cool to have a wedding on a mountain. The Mad River Valley is a beautiful place even for non-skiers.

Although dhs is right that I'm sure Sugarbush has a backup location available for the ceremony in the event of bad weather (either Timbers or Gate House Lodge most likely...)

 

[deadheadskier]

Can you ballpark the percentage of top-line revenue summit weddings represent? I wouldnt have guessed it's that big of a deal.

I don't have an intimate enough knowledge of their operation to ballpark a figure, but it's the backup venue and lost revenue opportunity that is the real difference maker.

You can sell the Tram as a safe bet against weather with intimate indoor ceremony in the top lodge if it rains. Comparatively you can't sell a chairlift ride in the rain on the Flyer.

So with the Tram / summit spce gone, anyone who books for a ceremony at the top of the Flyer, also has to book an indoor venue somewhere at the base in case it rains. That space they book for backup could be sold to someone else for a full service event. Conservatively that full service event could bring in $100 per guest.

So, say you only have a small wedding of 60 people. How many brides/grooms are going to be willing to pay $6k to reserve that back up space in case their top of the Flyer plans get washed out? That's a really expensive insurance policy. At that price most sane people would say, "let's just book Stowe Gondola and the Cliff House instead of worrying about what ifs with weather."

Jay likely wouldn't charge the full $6k, but they'd also rather keep that space available to sell to someone else who wants to host a full service event over a backup ceremony space at reduced revenue.

It's about maximizing event space and the Tram enables you to do that much more easily. This is the very reason why Sunday River installed a Chondola instead of just a chairlift. Maximizing revenue and event space.

 

[thetrailboss]

Not so sure I agree with that. I know people that just love Vermont in the summer and don't ski but still thought it was cool to have a wedding on a mountain. The Mad River Valley is a beautiful place even for non-skiers.

Although dhs is right that I'm sure Sugarbush has a backup location available for the ceremony in the event of bad weather (either Timbers or Gate House Lodge most likely...)

My point was that skiers are used to riding chairlifts; the general public is not (and many are wary of sitting on a "chair". They prefer a gondola).

 

[AdironRider]

I don't have an intimate enough knowledge of their operation to ballpark a figure, but it's the backup venue and lost revenue opportunity that is the real difference maker.

You can sell the Tram as a safe bet against weather with intimate indoor ceremony in the top lodge if it rains. Comparatively you can't sell a chairlift ride in the rain on the Flyer.

So with the Tram / summit spce gone, anyone who books for a ceremony at the top of the Flyer, also has to book an indoor venue somewhere at the base in case it rains. That space they book for backup could be sold to someone else for a full service event. Conservatively that full service event could bring in $100 per guest.

So, say you only have a small wedding of 60 people. How many brides/grooms are going to be willing to pay $6k to reserve that back up space in case their top of the Flyer plans get washed out? That's a really expensive insurance policy. At that price most sane people would say, "let's just book Stowe Gondola and the Cliff House instead of worrying about what ifs with weather."

Jay likely wouldn't charge the full $6k, but they'd also rather keep that space available to sell to someone else who wants to host a full service event over a backup ceremony space at reduced revenue.

It's about maximizing event space and the Tram enables you to do that much more easily. This is the very reason why Sunday River installed a Chondola instead of just a chairlift. Maximizing revenue and event space.

This implies they consistently are having multiple+ weddings every Saturday, which is a stretch.

Also, no one pays double during rainouts. That's bad business on the venues part. Their wedding business would go to hell real quick if they consistently did that.

I've also done 300+ weddings as an F&B manager. I've never made, nor did my catering managers require, paying full boat if we had a rainout at the primary venue. Furthermore, 80% just hold the ceremony at the top of the mountain IME, and hold the actual reception elsewhere in the area or at the base. Old folks and mountaintops do not make an enjoyable wedding experience.

This also completely ignores the fact that even with event space up top, its not really cost effective to hold a banquet up there. The logistics increase the cost 25%+ comparatively, so the whole notion of 6k being a breaking point doesn't hold that much water when they are paying extra to begin with. Cost is probably not driving their decision making.

Chair vs. Tram probably makes little difference, but comparing the cache of Stowe vs. Jay? Yeah Stowe is going to win every time in the dream wedding scenario.

 

[deadheadskier]

Almost every facility I've worked at charged for backup ceremony space if it meant potentially losing another event at full boat. that includes chain properties and independent facilities.

I'm not sure how many weddings Jay has per season, but it would not surprise me at all if it were at least 2-3 every Saturday of wedding season

 

[AdironRider]

Almost every facility I've worked at charged for backup ceremony space if it meant potentially losing another event at full boat. that includes chain properties and independent facilities.

I'm not sure how many weddings Jay has per season, but it would not surprise me at all if it were at least 2-3 every Saturday of wedding season

I'm not saying there aren't costs involved with relocating a venue, but you aren't double dipping at full boat. You don't need double staff, double the food, etc. 100 bucks a head just for the backup room at Jay, please. That is Four Seasons level money.

2-3 in the general vicinity no doubt, but Jay proper pumping out 2-3 every weekend, I'm skeptical.

 

[steamboat1]

http://www.killington.com/summer/groups/weddings/venues

I find it odd that the Peak Lodge is not even mentioned. Obviously they do have affairs at the peak.

 

[cdskier]

My point was that skiers are used to riding chairlifts; the general public is not (and many are wary of sitting on a "chair". They prefer a gondola).

I think my mom is about the only non-skier I know that would have a problem with a chair...but she would have a problem with a gondola too I'm sure. :razz: Chairs used by non-skiers aren't that uncommon anymore with all the off-season activities resorts have now (scenic lift rides, fall foliage rides, etc). There are plenty of people that do these off-season activities that don't ski.

Furthermore, 80% just hold the ceremony at the top of the mountain IME, and hold the actual reception elsewhere in the area or at the base.

In looking at Jay's website it looks like they only offer ceremony options at the top and all the reception choices are down the mountain.

Almost every facility I've worked at charged for backup ceremony space if it meant potentially losing another event at full boat. that includes chain properties and independent facilities.

Why not just use the reception space as the backup ceremony venue in the event of bad weather? Then all the arguments about potentially losing another event from having to reserve space "just in case it is needed" are thrown right out the window. I've been at weddings where that's what was done.

 

[mriceyman]

I'm not saying there aren't costs involved with relocating a venue, but you aren't double dipping at full boat. You don't need double staff, double the food, etc. 100 bucks a head just for the backup room at Jay, please. That is Four Seasons level money.

2-3 in the general vicinity no doubt, but Jay proper pumping out 2-3 every weekend, I'm skeptical.

Shit 100 a head in jersey will get you a barn with horses as bartenders and sheep as waiters


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[deadheadskier]

CD....I've certainly hosted weddings where that has been done, but it takes a real laid back crowd. Most wedding parties want a separate ceremony venue from the reception. It also depends on if you have the right space to do it. There's also the issue of labor efficiency. Most often while the ceremony is going on, the staff is putting the finishing touches on the reception space. If you double up functionality of the space you have to call in staff earlier, which drives up labor costs and eats into profit. Usually the only time we had such scenarios are when we physically had no other space available.

In regards to riding the chair, all families are different, but I know many of my elderly family members wouldn't be comfortable riding an open air chair, but would be fine on a gondola or tram.

I was curious how many weddings Jay does and they have over 60 booked this summer. I'm sure they have numerous other social and conference events booked as well.

http://www.leisurehotel.com/leisure-hotels-resorts-manage-jay-peak-resort/

 

[AdironRider]

Shit 100 a head in jersey will get you a barn with horses as bartenders and sheep as waiters


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Im talking just the event space.

 

[steamboat1]

[h=2]Ceremony Locations[/h]Killington offers two ceremony sites that blend perfectly with our mountain and garden landscape. We are happy to make all the rental arrangements from tent to chairs and to prepare and set up the site. Plus, we will schedule an indoor site in case of inclement weather.