Big Burke announcement

[snoseek]

Back to the Kingdom Trails mess it looks like an agreement has been reached.


http://skiburke.com/assets/Uploads/Articles/KT-Release.pdf

 

[from_the_NEK]

Good Gravy. It is about time! :beer:

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Great news! All the pessimists are really scurrying for bad news, rumors and innuendo now!

 

[thetrailboss]

Great news! All the pessimists are really scurrying for bad news, rumors and innuendo now!

:roll:

I would not put people into the pessimist vs. optimist camp. We've had some good discussion here and some good criticism on all sides. We just want the real dirt, not hype.

That said, if you read the release, you see that the this is really a truce. As to the resolution it is good that for now the issue is resolved. I think, again, that the whole kerfuffle was really not necessary...and it has taken 5 months for this truce and that's what it is. I think that it's unfortunate that Q could not have handled this better than he did. We did not need to have a very public PR war that Q launched. Folks seem to have short memories as to what happened in December and some of the really nasty Emails that Q sent to members of the biking community. But for now they agree not to agree on everything and it is what it is.

I also understand that there are other landowner issues regarding Q's biking trails that have not been resolved.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

:roll:

I would not put people into the pessimist vs. optimist camp. We've had some good discussion here and some good criticism on all sides.

I agree wholeheartedly. But let's face it, some people very clearly were pessimistic (not antagonistic) during our debate regarding the positive news that has been coming out recently.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree wholeheartedly. But let's face it, some people very clearly were pessimistic (not antagonistic) during our debate regarding the positive news that has been coming out recently.

I'm skeptical and with good reason.

 

[dlague]

I watched some the videos on youtube about trails at Burke and there are some really cool trails i want to try!

 

[thetrailboss]

I watched some the videos on youtube about trails at Burke and there are some really cool trails i want to try!

Indeed!

 

[from_the_NEK]

Interesting that QBurke pretty much had to "pay" Kingdom Trails for the Roly Grail trail that was built last year with the Bell Grant. The "payment" is for KT to build a new trail. I wonder where the new trail ends up being built?

 

[SkiRaceParent]

Interesting that QBurke pretty much had to "pay" Kingdom Trails for the Roly Grail trail that was built last year with the Bell Grant. The "payment" is for KT to build a new trail. I wonder where the new trail ends up being built?

There needs to be a blue up the mountain road so you don't risk your life riding up the road. That, or a bike lane. Think this is key to the whole area.

 

[from_the_NEK]

There needs to be a blue up the mountain road so you don't risk your life riding up the road. That, or a bike lane. Think this is key to the whole area.

That sounds like a nice idea. However it would be a huge undertaking to create a trail that has a gentle enough pitch to climb Burke. The Toll Road is already steep and very hard to get up without adding mud, rocks, and other technical features of a trail. A MTB only trail would have to be less steep than the Toll road for that reason. Look at Camptown. It pretty much parallels the Toll Road but has a lot of switchbacks that make climbing it manageable.
A "Bike Lane" on the toll road would also be extremely expensive since the road would have to be widened in a lot of places to make it work.

 

[SkiRaceParent]

That sounds like a nice idea. However it would be a huge undertaking to create a trail that has a gentle enough pitch to climb Burke. The Toll Road is already steep and very hard to get up without adding mud, rocks, and other technical features of a trail. A MTB only trail would have to be less steep than the Toll road for that reason. Look at Camptown. It pretty much parallels the Toll Road but has a lot of switchbacks that make climbing it manageable.
A "Bike Lane" on the toll road would also be extremely expensive since the road would have to be widened in a lot of places to make it work.

I am not referring to all the way up the mountain, just from town to the sherburne base lodge entrance.

 

[VTKilarney]

This is a negotiated divorce and nothing more. Given the result, I think the expression of displeasure was warranted. Unity was a good thing. A loss of unity is a bad thing. Why are people so afraid to call a spade a spade?

And Trailboss is correct. A lot of criticism was over the PR boondoggle. That was more than deserved.

 

[VTKilarney]

I am not referring to all the way up the mountain, just from town to the sherburne base lodge entrance.

That would be a fantastic addition. That narrow bridge has always made me nervous.

 

[thetrailboss]

That would be a fantastic addition. That narrow bridge has always made me nervous.

We joked because the State redid those two bridges recently. They are bad. Instead of widening them, the kept the same width in the rebuild because of historical reasons. So they're still dangerous. Progress I guess.... :blink:

 

[thetrailboss]

This is a negotiated divorce and nothing more. Given the result, I think the expression of displeasure was warranted. Unity was a good thing. A loss of unity is a bad thing. Why are people so afraid to call a spade a spade?

And Trailboss is correct. A lot of criticism was over the PR boondoggle. That was more than deserved.

Yeah I see it is an attempt to put lipstick on the pig. I understand the bottom-line issues that Q intended to address, and I think that is legitimate, but the loss of goodwill and the PR debacle could have all been avoided.

 

[from_the_NEK]

We joked because the State redid those two bridges recently. They are bad. Instead of widening them, the kept the same width in the rebuild because of historical reasons. So they're still dangerous. Progress I guess.... :blink:

I think they are actually a foot or two wider than they used to be and I think they realigned them slightly. However, they still suck but I think they may be using them as a bit of a speed control as well.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Burnham Down/Up was intended to be used by riders wanting an alternative to road climbing to the base lodge. I t roughly parallels the Mountain road, but it is above the river valley that the road follows.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think they are actually a foot or two wider than they used to be and I think they realigned them slightly. However, they still suck but I think they may be using them as a bit of a speed control as well.

What are you? An engineer or something?

I would not be surprised if speed control was an issue. I just know from a source in the construction biz that the State AOT said that the bridges needed to be similar for historical reasons. I guess that meant Model T Ford days since they were originally bit in the 1930's as part of the CCC projects in the 1930's IIRC.

 

[noreasterbackcountry]

I started using Burnham last year and much prefer it to the asphalt climb up the mountain road. It's a little steep and wet at the beginning, but still a fairly manageable/enjoyable climb. That said, I haven't met anyone who was descending on the bridges. I think most folks (like me) prefer the Moose Alley-White School descent.

I'm satisfied with the exceptions they carved out for weekend biking-- the only mountain trail I used as an XC rider that will now require a pass from QBurke (on the weekend) is Lower J Bar. I'm sure there are others who will be sore about the loss of the flow trails on the lower mountain. Anyone know what QBurke will be charging for access/lift pass?

I'm excited for the prospect of a new flow trail. Without knowing the landowner/land use restrictions, I'd vote for a connector to the right of the Darling Hill climb (above White School) that would connect to the area around Poundcake. I'd also like to see them get access and develop trails around the Victory side of Burke where the CircumBurke runs to help spread out the weekend traffic. I know a good portion of that is on state owned land.

I think the real test will come when we see how much care is taken by QBurke to maintain and develop the trails on the mountain. On the one hand, they need a guaranteed revenue stream in the summer by filling beds at the hotel, but on the other, KT can do that for them regardless of the quality of the trails at QBurke.