Boot Fit

[dlague]

I was at a BBQ/Party this weekend with a bunch of our skiing family/friends and the whole topic of boot fit came up.

There were three schools of opinion and it got pretty heated at times (see poll).

Years ago I used to be option 2 prior to glades opening up when skiing was traditionally more groomer style skiing. I took a 12 year hiatus (unwillingly - but another story) and when I returned (about 14 years ago) I bought boots accordingly. However, ski areas had changed with the parks and glades now common place I found that with my toe to the front of the boot I would get toe bang. I then went against many of the ski shops recommendations and bought a .5-1 mondo size larger. Since then I find that I never get toe bang and I can keep boots on all day as if they were everyday shoes. I ratchet down the buckles to make sure my heel stays in pocket and I do not feel as though I lost any control which is what some of the super tight crowd argue.

Now one of the guys and his wife are the super tight crowd and work for a ski shop and were defending their stance agressively but did agree that toe bang was an issue. Is that worth it?

I was curious about many of your opinions are?

 

[deadheadskier]

I buy as tight as I can cram my feet into. I tend to get more toe bang as my boots age and loosen than I do when they're brand new and fitted properly.

 

[St. Bear]

The boots I have now are probably a half size too small, and I can see the performance benefits, but when I rent I go up a size and enjoy the comfort.

 

[drjeff]

Toe touching the front when 1st fit, but NOT CRAMMED in is what works best for me given the number of days I tend to ski a year.

I want the performance of a snug, properly fit boot, but at the same time do appreciate some comfort given the variety of terrain that I like to ski. That being said, I've still ended up with a case of "toe bang" (or as my daughter describes it "6 month toe nail polish" ;-) ) on at least one of my big toes 4 out of the last 5 seasons.

When my liners get packed out enough that I have a loose toe box (usually somewhere between 150-200 days) for me, then I know that it's time for a new pair of boots since both the liners are packed out and typically my boot soles are worn enough that they also need to be addressed for proper boot/binding contact and function

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

What is to be gained from a boot fit where your toes are "crammed"? I'm pretty fussy about boot fitment; I can't ski comfortably or (as) proficiently (as Id like to) with a boot that isn't heavily tailored to my foot and stance. The heel needs to held in place. The ball of the foot should not be able to wiggle sideways or up and down. The footbed needs to fit the arch. But what's the detriment of toe wiggle room? I could understand elite racers wanting a snug toe fit for surface sensation or something like that.
But what's the benefit of toes being crammed?

 

[Smellytele]

I ski tele most of the time so there is usually plenty of toe room. When I switch to alpine I go with toe touching but not crammed in when on a flat not skiing. Then when I ski and I am in a ski position the toes pull away from the end of the boot a little and no toe jam is experienced. One year I made the mistake of picking up a mislabeled used boot and it was 2 full size small but I only used them for corporate racing. I hadn't been in alpine boots for like 5 years before that and just thought that is how alpine boots always had fit. Anyone looking for a pair of Lange WC size 7-1/2's (25.5)?

 

[wa-loaf]

I go down a size and then have the boot fit. A little stretching and grinding. I've never had toe bang even when I was wearing larger shell sizes. My toes touch the end when upright, pull away when in ski position.

 

[Nick]

I've been to several boot fittings and they always recommend I jamb the $hit out of my toe in it. I don't get it. It's uncomfortable to me. I like mine very snug without wiggle room but when I have to actually bend my toes to get them to fit, it's too tight.

 

[bigbog]

God dlague, don't I dream of parties/BBQs with that brand of crowd..
Yeah, sustained a little frostbite in the feet during pre-teen/early-teen years of highly questionable winter hiking through miles of nice knee-deep stuff...
Either I carefully punch out the toebox over the lug or look at boots with more area in front...OR(as I'm often between sizes in pure downhill boot) use my dense, filling liner in the larger shell(@a step down in volume) and put the mods to it...reposition buckles a little lower, cuff clipped a little and tapered a bit, but have to use a foam insert to fill the shin gap, where the feel during flexion is a little vague..rather find a boot with more toebox...but both solutions work fine and the feet are super warm.
BUT...as stated by all bootguys...MUCH, MUCH easier to stretch a smaller boot than try to take in space....it just takes a little time = patience, but if you go with the larger shell....definitely have to know(or bootguy needs to know) how to put the mods to it = skis great...much better than being in a stock shellsize larger.
*Easy to tell I have the caveman feet...

Nick,
Have a reputable guy, whose shop is often Up Near the Mtns!...punch a little more room in the toebox and definitely make more room in the toe area in the liner. Takes unstitching, maybe a little cutting but will add material and extent the length...should be pretty straight forward!

 

[hammer]

I go down a size and then have the boot fit. A little stretching and grinding. I've never had toe bang even when I was wearing larger shell sizes. My toes touch the end when upright, pull away when in ski position.

This is how my boots fit as well, but I can still get toe bang when I assume the dump position...

 

[Madroch]

I buy as tight as I can cram my feet into. I tend to get more toe bang as my boots age and loosen than I do when they're brand new and fitted properly.

This^- my old boots were wider- 98 last- about .5 mondo small- packed out and lost a tonail.... Latest boots (2008) were at least 1 mondo size small but super narrow (92 last), plug and ground/stretched to fit with thin hard race liner- after two agonizing days they were the best fitting boots ever - could leave them buckled all day- oddly enough, just replaced the stock race super thin lace up liner that was worn to bits with a new liner and soles and got toe bang- can't figure out how replacing a worn thin hard liner with a cushy new supposedly high performance non lace up liner could result in more foot movement but it apparently did....gotta address it in the fall-

Besides toe bang- there is issue of ski response- nothing responds like a properly fit boot

 

[Madroch]

I ski tele most of the time so there is usually plenty of toe room. When I switch to alpine I go with toe touching but not crammed in when on a flat not skiing. Then when I ski and I am in a ski position the toes pull away from the end of the boot a little and no toe jam is experienced. One year I made the mistake of picking up a mislabeled used boot and it was 2 full size small but I only used them for corporate racing. I hadn't been in alpine boots for like 5 years before that and just thought that is how alpine boots always had fit. Anyone looking for a pair of Lange WC size 7-1/2's (25.5)?

Which model shell on the langes? Send a pic...

 

[Scruffy]

Everyone's feet is so different from one person to the next, it's hard to make any recommendations, except to seek out the best boot fitter around and go spend the $$ to have it done. If you have finicky feet, be prepared to take the boots back after skiing them a while and have the fitter adjust accordingly - a good fitter will expect that.

If your feet can move fore and aft, you'll get toe bang. You should not have to crank the buckles down tight to keep your feet from sloshing around in your boot, if you do, something is wrong with the fit.

I'm lucky, I'm easy to fit and I've never had toe bang and I can ski with my buckles loose, in fact I prefer them that way.

 

[Madroch]

What is to be gained from a boot fit where your toes are "crammed"? I'm pretty fussy about boot fitment; I can't ski comfortably or (as) proficiently (as Id like to) with a boot that isn't heavily tailored to my foot and stance. The heel needs to held in place. The ball of the foot should not be able to wiggle sideways or up and down. The footbed needs to fit the arch. But what's the detriment of toe wiggle room? I could understand elite racers wanting a snug toe fit for surface sensation or something like that.
But what's the benefit of toes being crammed?

True- as snug as my boots are- toes are not crammed- touching when standing, barely brushing when flexed- but I can wiggle toes away on lift because not jammed into front and there is height in toe box. To me, the heel, arch, forefoot height (not sure proper name) and width are what hold me foot and keep it snug.

Second Scruffy on good not having to ratchet down buckles and distort shell- my buckles are all on first, or second loosest depending upon temp and type of skiing

 

[drjeff]

This^- my old boots were wider- 98 last- about .5 mondo small- packed out and lost a tonail.... Latest boots (2008) were at least 1 mondo size small but super narrow (92 last), plug and ground/stretched to fit with thin hard race liner- after two agonizing days they were the best fitting boots ever - could leave them buckled all day- oddly enough, just replaced the stock race super thin lace up liner that was worn to bits with a new liner and soles and got toe bang- can't figure out how replacing a worn thin hard liner with a cushy new supposedly high performance non lace up liner could result in more foot movement but it apparently did....gotta address it in the fall-

Besides toe bang- there is issue of ski response- nothing responds like a properly fit boot

Agree 1000%!!!!

 

[Abubob]

This reminds me - I need new boots but my budget dictates when I can buy - probably not until next year. I like it really snug but if my toes are too crammed they loose circulation and get really cold - so some toe box stretching will probably be in order. That would make me a bit nervous because if they stretch too much the boots are ruined and no one I know guarantees that sort of work.

 

[ss20]

I know I'm in the minority here, but all I want is comfort. I'm not very concerned over a performance drop. If its painful then I wouldn't be out there.

 

[ScottySkis]

Fitted I not sure where my toes are but i know my boot is out an inch where my big toes are because i have wide feet. Love your local boot fitter they can produce heven in the boot.

 

[goldsbar]

I know I'm in the minority here, but all I want is comfort. I'm not very concerned over a performance drop. If its painful then I wouldn't be out there.

A well fit recreational boot might be uncomfortable the first couple of times, but will be comfortable and require no unbuckling after a couple of days of packing in. Buying comfortable boots upfront means they'll pack out and be too loose in a few days. The performance difference is substantial and you're really not giving up much comfort.

 

[Hawkshot99]

When I buy a new boot I like my toes to be pushed uncomfortably into the front of the shell. I ski much better with a heal lift in the boots as it makes me lean forward, and also pulls my toes back off the front, t wear they can just slightly wiggle.

I have a very snug fitting boot. I measure a 28, and wear a 26. In a boot where I have more toe room, the entire boot has more room around my foot. This causes me to slide as soon as the liners reak in, and I get real bad toe bang, and hate the boots.