Boot Fit

[Savemeasammy]

I ski with my boots very tight. If there is any slop, I can definitely feel it in my skiing. I usually have pressure on my shins when I'm skiing, and my toes don't make contact as a result. I see zero benefit in having your toes intentionally making contact with the front of your boot...


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[deadheadskier]

I ski with my boots very tight. If there is any slop, I can definitely feel it in my skiing. I usually have pressure on my shins when I'm skiing, and my toes don't make contact as a result. I see zero benefit in having your toes intentionally making contact with the front of your boot...


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In the skiing position I agree, the toes shouldn't be touching the front of the boot. In the upright position I feel the toes should be right up to the front of the boot with the tiniest amount of wiggle room in order to ensure a proper fit in the skiing position. I'm with you in that I can definitely tell a difference in my skiing if there's any slop in the fit. I've got about 150 days on my Kryptons and really started to notice a down tick in performance at the end of last season no matter how tight I crank them down. I really should replace them before this upcoming season, I just don't have the $7-800 in my budget right now to do it.

 

[bigbog]

This^- my old boots were wider- 98 last- about .5 mondo small- packed out and lost a tonail.... Latest boots (2008) were at least 1 mondo size small but super narrow (92 last), plug and ground/stretched to fit with thin hard race liner- after two agonizing days they were the best fitting boots ever - could leave them buckled all day- oddly enough, just replaced the stock race super thin lace up liner that was worn to bits with a new liner and soles and got toe bang- can't figure out how replacing a worn thin hard liner with a cushy new supposedly high performance non lace up liner could result in more foot movement but it apparently did....gotta address it in the fall-

Besides toe bang- there is issue of ski response- nothing responds like a properly fit boot

Yeah Madroch....often the thicker liners have equivalent dimensions outside but inside is where their thickness takes away space from both toebox and back of heel pocket. Also another major area is the tongue thickness. Might want to consider my procedure, a "one giant leap for medical science..LOL", cutting the tongue off both...or should I say Extracting both..leaving as much material to sew in with... and transplanting the plug's tongue into the cushy one. I bet there's a difference in width..leaving you with a Grand Canyon in front of your shins and promoting the foot sliding forward with toes acting as front bumper. $.01

Steve

 

[Puck it]

I ski for the first hour or so with my boots unbuckled. They are just put in the bail and not closed. I do not tighten them until I need to for some techinical stuff but for mandatory GS turns they can stay untightened.

 

[Madroch]

Yeah Madroch....often the thicker liners have equivalent dimensions outside but inside is where their thickness takes away space from both toebox and back of heel pocket. Also another major area is the tongue thickness. Might want to consider my procedure, a "one giant leap for medical science..LOL", cutting the tongue off both...or should I say Extracting both..leaving as much material to sew in with... and transplanting the plug's tongue into the cushy one. I bet there's a difference in width..leaving you with a Grand Canyon in front of your shins and promoting the foot sliding forward with toes acting as front bumper. $.01

Steve

Steve- thanks- just checked the tongues- you know of which you speak, there is a noticeable difference in width.....and firmness.. The old plug tongues have zero give... They are basically like firm styrofoam - while the new tongues are all squishy ---not sure ready to take the giant leap yet but that does explain a lot

Thanks for the education...

John

 

[Madroch]

In the skiing position I agree, the toes shouldn't be touching the front of the boot. In the upright position I feel the toes should be right up to the front of the boot with the tiniest amount of wiggle room in order to ensure a proper fit in the skiing position. I'm with you in that I can definitely tell a difference in my skiing if there's any slop in the fit. I've got about 150 days on my Kryptons and really started to notice a down tick in performance at the end of last season no matter how tight I crank them down. I really should replace them before this upcoming season, I just don't have the $7-800 in my budget right now to do it.

Can you replace the liners- didn't work for me because I didn't replace apples with apples.. But if you can get your hands on equiv liners it may work.

My shells with about 190-200 days are largely fine- although they are plug thick hard plastic- had to fix a buckle, and lost one rivet so removed the other- which was fine as I like the added flex... But otherwise good as gold....

 

[Madroch]

Kind of wishing i had bought the same pair I have on eBay new last year for 100-must not be a popular boot to have new models around 5 years later...paid that for the new liners that don't fit right...

 

[Brad J]

Replaced my liners on my tecnica race 110 after 100 Days with Zip fit world cup and find a great fit . very snug fit, no need to tighten very much at all and boot has much better performance than stock liners.

 

[mister moose]

True- as snug as my boots are- toes are not crammed- touching when standing, barely brushing when flexed- but I can wiggle toes away on lift because not jammed into front and there is height in toe box. To me, the heel, arch, forefoot height (not sure proper name) and width are what hold m[y] foot and keep it snug.

I agree.

The poll is somewhat flawed as it doesn't specify anything other than toes, and it doesn't specify standing or skiing. I'd think while skiing...

Some people have "factory feet" and get away fine with a stock boot. I'm not one of those. I'm on custom footbeds, stock shells that are blown out in a few spots, and custom foamed liners. I dealt with stock liners on and off for a lot of years. If you can afford it, and can benefit from it, there is nothing else like a good foamed fit. As a result I have zero heel lift. Zero. The top of the arch (or the instep, inside the tongue) is foamed, and that presses me down into the footbed, and together with the foamed sides my feet are welded to the foot bed. I'm not a racer, but I like a "firm handshake" fit. ie can't move, but no hot spots. My big toes have vertical room, and maybe are 1/16" from grazing the front shell. If I stand, they barely touch. I don't buy my boots to be comfortable walking in, and rarely walk in them. I buy my boots to ski in, and like Madroch, my foot doesn't slide forward.... until the temp goes to 50 degrees or more. Then it's toenail clipping season. My shells go so soft in the spring, so soft everything moves. And I've skied in 80 degrees.

It's difficult to tell a beginner what a good fit feels like. Everyone wants to be comfortable, but you have to both train your feet as well as get through the break in period. As an example, first week of skiing my shins always complain. That doesn't mean the fit is bad. After week 2, I'm back in the saddle and feeling normal again. That said, in ski season when I come out of my boots there is an actual dent in my shin where the tongue stops.

You also have to consider days skied per year. The 10 days a year skier isn't going to take the time or invest the money in boots a 50 days a years skier is going to. And those of us that go well past 50, well, we want a good fit.

One last point. If you can't stand still on your edge on a very steep slope where you need to claw the edge into the hill, with no muscle pressure anywhere except the cuff of the boot against the side of your calf, or stated another way if you need to pressure the ankle in sideways pressuring the slopeside edge of the footbed to maintain edge control, your boot is too sloppy. The boot in some respects should feel like a horse hoof. (side to side) Stick it out and plant it, and it supports you. Just make sure you're ready for the ride.

 

[deadheadskier]

Can you replace the liners- didn't work for me because I didn't replace apples with apples.. But if you can get your hands on equiv liners it may work.

My shells with about 190-200 days are largely fine- although they are plug thick hard plastic- had to fix a buckle, and lost one rivet so removed the other- which was fine as I like the added flex... But otherwise good as gold....

I suppose I could try that to save a few bucks, but I've never much liked the Kryptons to begin with. I bought into the hype and got them because all the bump skiers on here were raving about them. They do ski well in the bumps, but not appreciably enough for me to make up for the drop off in performance I experience in other aspects of skiing that I've enjoyed in prior 4 buckle design boots.

 

[drjeff]

I suppose I could try that to save a few bucks, but I've never much liked the Kryptons to begin with. I bought into the hype and got them because all the bump skiers on here were raving about them. They do ski well in the bumps, but not appreciably enough for me to make up for the drop off in performance I experience in other aspects of skiing that I've enjoyed in prior 4 buckle design boots.

I look at it this way, over the years there's been tons of design fads in boots. The one "constant" for nearing a half century now, is the 4 buckle overlap boot. It's got to be doing something pretty well with that kind of staying prowess! ;-)

 

[drjeff]

I agree.

The poll is somewhat flawed as it doesn't specify anything other than toes, and it doesn't specify standing or skiing. I'd think while skiing...

Some people have "factory feet" and get away fine with a stock boot. I'm not one of those. I'm on custom footbeds, stock shells that are blown out in a few spots, and custom foamed liners. I dealt with stock liners on and off for a lot of years. If you can afford it, and can benefit from it, there is nothing else like a good foamed fit. As a result I have zero heel lift. Zero. The top of the arch (or the instep, inside the tongue) is foamed, and that presses me down into the footbed, and together with the foamed sides my feet are welded to the foot bed. I'm not a racer, but I like a "firm handshake" fit. ie can't move, but no hot spots. My big toes have vertical room, and maybe are 1/16" from grazing the front shell. If I stand, they barely touch. I don't buy my boots to be comfortable walking in, and rarely walk in them. I buy my boots to ski in, and like Madroch, my foot doesn't slide forward.... until the temp goes to 50 degrees or more. Then it's toenail clipping season. My shells go so soft in the spring, so soft everything moves. And I've skied in 80 degrees.

It's difficult to tell a beginner what a good fit feels like. Everyone wants to be comfortable, but you have to both train your feet as well as get through the break in period. As an example, first week of skiing my shins always complain. That doesn't mean the fit is bad. After week 2, I'm back in the saddle and feeling normal again. That said, in ski season when I come out of my boots there is an actual dent in my shin where the tongue stops.

You also have to consider days skied per year. The 10 days a year skier isn't going to take the time or invest the money in boots a 50 days a years skier is going to. And those of us that go well past 50, well, we want a good fit.

One last point. If you can't stand still on your edge on a very steep slope where you need to claw the edge into the hill, with no muscle pressure anywhere except the cuff of the boot against the side of your calf, or stated another way if you need to pressure the ankle in sideways pressuring the slopeside edge of the footbed to maintain edge control, your boot is too sloppy. The boot in some respects should feel like a horse hoof. (side to side) Stick it out and plant it, and it supports you. Just make sure you're ready for the ride.

Very well stated MM on a topic that IS kind of tough to describe, but once you've felt it, you know what it is and NEVER want to give it up!

 

[goldsbar]

Good point on the toe tightness. It's really more about getting the proper width and finding a brand that conforms to your foot shape (i.e. don't listen to brand advice from anyone, find your own match). IME though, somewhat tight toes are needed - at least pre pack in - to find the right fit.

For the record, I lose at least one big toenail per season. Takes until mid-summer to grow back. It's from pushing my ability to the limit and getting tossed to the back seat.

 

[Savemeasammy]

I suppose I could try that to save a few bucks, but I've never much liked the Kryptons to begin with. I bought into the hype and got them because all the bump skiers on here were raving about them. They do ski well in the bumps, but not appreciably enough for me to make up for the drop off in performance I experience in other aspects of skiing that I've enjoyed in prior 4 buckle design boots.

I don't recall the previous conversation about Kryptons and bump skiing - why were bump skiers in favor of this boot? I wasn't familiar with it, so I just did a search. Dalbello actually states that the boot is designed for a center-stance, rockered ski. I personally ski a fully cambered ski, and am always in a forward position. In theory, I like the buckle across the ankle, but I think that the lack of a top buckle, as well as a buckle across the toes, would be a non-starter for me... I see value in both of these buckles - particularly at the toes. I think that is where a sloppy fit is most likely to affect my skiing, because my turn initiation is started there... I personally ski Atomic Hawx 120. I'm a lightweight, so I'm not sure if a stiffer boot would be any better for me. The Atomics seemed to fit well, and they were a good deal, so I bought them. I never even gave a thought to whether or not they were a "bump boot"...


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[Madroch]

MM- you raise am interesting point about warm spring skiing- the toe bang I got with my new liners was on a 60+ day in late April... And I was backseat a bit on the vw sized bumps at Stowe more often than my ego cares to admit... They were largely ok prior to that since march when I installed them.. Maybe it was the warmth.. Although historically my feet have sometimes hurt in spring on super warm days... 70 plus etc...i always thought it was because my feet were swollen when warmer.. Perhaps it was because I was clenching to compensate for sloppiness in the shell at those temps

 

[Madroch]

Tried the krypton pros in 2008- too wide, so ended up with a 4 buckle overlap.. Fine with it

 

[dlague]

Can you replace the liners- didn't work for me because I didn't replace apples with apples.. But if you can get your hands on equiv liners it may work.

My shells with about 190-200 days are largely fine- although they are plug thick hard plastic- had to fix a buckle, and lost one rivet so removed the other- which was fine as I like the added flex... But otherwise good as gold....

My son had a pair of dal bello boss's and replaced the liners with full tilt liners and loved it!


.......

 

[steamboat1]

Most important thing in a boot to me is comfort. If your feet hurt skiing is no fun. Been there, done that. I'm reluctant to get a new pair of boots because the ones I have now have been so comfortable. I'm way overdue for new boots.

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't recall the previous conversation about Kryptons and bump skiing - why were bump skiers in favor of this boot?

The more "progressive flex" I guess? You see a number of skiers on the pro tour using three piece Cabrio design ski boots.....Kryptons, Full Tilts, etc. I'm with you and I think the lack of 4 buckles doesn't keep my foot solidly locked in in all areas. I also feel the design gives up lateral power transmission when carving. They aren't terrible boots by any means. I've just been used to skiing race boots most of my life and the Krypton doesn't offer the same precision and feedback IMO.

 

[jack97]

^^^

The progressive flex provides two things. First, it prevents or minimizes shin bang when that frontside bump is mistimed. Second, bump skis are skinny so that progressive flex allows more range to load the front side of the ski to initiate and control the turn.


As a side, all the park rats at the bump mecca (aka Ski Sundown) are using the cabrio design. The progressive flex allows them to cushions their landings.