border patrol

[ctenidae]

I draw my conclusion on life experiences not on another persons thoughts put down in a book. As far as I can tell life is pretty good.

A smart man learns from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from other's.

 

[tjf67]

A smart man learns from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from other's.

Heres another one hickory dickery dock OHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

 

[Greg]

Okay. I guess I get the civil liberties thing; although I really don't worry about it all that much. I barely have time to fart sometimes so cooking up conspiracy theories is not something I get involved with. Anyway, exactly how is a 10 second border patrol stop encroaching on one's civil liberties? Is it the slippery slope potential that worries people? Is it at all possible that perhaps the intentions of the DHS are sincere and really looking out for the security of the country? I guess it's more dramatic to read too deep into it and call it unconstitutional...

Are DUI check stops unconstitutional too?

 

[hammer]

I barely have time to fart sometimes so cooking up conspiracy theories is not something I get involved with.

You always have to make time for that...unless you are one of those types who takes care of it while you sleep...

Are DUI check stops unconstitutional too?

Different animal altogether...those deal with safety on the roads, and people have to remember that driving is a privilege and not a constitutional right.

 

[tjf67]

You always have to make time for that...unless you are one of those types who takes care of it while you sleep...

Different animal altogether...those deal with safety on the roads, and people have to remember that driving is a priviledge and not a constitutional right.

Now that you are talking about a different animal. I think anyone with an suv or car without snow tires should be thrown in jail.

 

[hammer]

Now that you are talking about a different animal. I think anyone with an suv or car without snow tires should be thrown in jail.

My guess is that you agree with seat belt laws as well...

Maybe the Border Patrol was checking cars that didn't have snow tires?

 

[andyzee]

Okay. I guess I get the civil liberties thing; although I really don't worry about it all that much. I barely have time to fart sometimes so cooking up conspiracy theories is not something I get involved with. Anyway, exactly how is a 10 second border patrol stop encroaching on one's civil liberties? Is it the slippery slope potential that worries people? Is it at all possible that perhaps the intentions of the DHS are sincere and really looking out for the security of the country? I guess it's more dramatic to read too deep into it and call it unconstitutional...

Are DUI check stops unconstitutional too?

Slippery slope is correct and I do believe DUIs to be unconstitutional.

 

[wa-loaf]

Anyway, exactly how is a 10 second border patrol stop encroaching on one's civil liberties? Is it the slippery slope potential that worries people? Is it at all possible that perhaps the intentions of the DHS are sincere and really looking out for the security of the country? I guess it's more dramatic to read too deep into it and call it unconstitutional...

There is no easy place to draw the line. So it's important to stay on top of what the gov't is up to. No crazy conspiracy theories. Plenty of folks in govt just trying to do their jobs, but sometimes they overstep the line under the guise of looking out for you.

 

[deadheadskier]

Stopping you to look into your car is not unconstitutional but coming to your house to do a search without a warrant is ...

What about a random ID check while walking down the street? I think people would get even more fired up about that than being stopped at a road block, but they're both essentially the same thing.

 

[Greg]

Slippery slope is correct and I do believe DUIs to be unconstitutional.

There is no easy place to draw the line. So it's important to stay on top of what the gov't is up to. No crazy conspiracy theories. Plenty of folks in govt just trying to do their jobs, but sometimes they overstep the line under the guise of looking out for you.

Understood. But unless there is some evidence that the DHS is acting underhanded with these stops, it is all in fact a conspiracy theory. Maybe I am just a naive little sheep, but I have to believe the intent here is sincere. But if you guys want to stay up at night worrying about it, then knock yourselves out. I'll be trying to catch up on some sleep after chasing my 2 year old around...

Stopping you to look into your car is not unconstitutional but coming to your house to do a search without a warrant is ...

I don't believe that is what we are talking about here, but it seems some folks think that's what these border patrol stops are designed to lead to. I don't.

 

[hammer]

Slippery slope is correct and I do believe DUIs to be unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about an arrest for DUI? :blink:

Checking people to make sure that they aren't driving impaired is for safety reasons...the constitution doesn't have rights that allow people to do stupid things that endanger the lives of others...

 

[andyzee]

Understood. But unless there is some evidence that the DHS is acting underhanded with these stops, it is all in fact a conspiracy theory. Maybe I am just a naive little sheep, but I have to believe the intent here is sincere. But if you guys want to stay up at night worrying about it, then knock yourselves out. I'll be trying to catch up on some sleep after chasing my 2 year old around...

I do believe the intent to be sincere, but that doesn't change the fact that constitutional rights are being stepped on.

I will not stay up nights worrying about it, I have no kids. You on the other hand do, and it's the kids that will have to live with the consequences of our apathy.

 

[wa-loaf]

I don't believe that is what we are talking about here, but it seems some folks think that's what these border patrol stops are designed to lead to. I don't.

Yup, I don't think the border patrol stop is a big deal and they've been at it for 10+ years so it's not new. They were doing them in Maine in the 90's. Which is why Ed annoyed me because it looked like he joined AZ purely to post about the Border Patrol thing. Haven't seen him post anywhere else yet about skiing. . .

My later posts are just about civil liberties in general.

 

[andyzee]

What is unconstitutional about an arrest for DUI? :blink:

Checking people to make sure that they aren't driving impaired is for safety reasons...the constitution doesn't have rights that allow people to do stupid things that endanger the lives of others...

Nothing unconstitutional about arrests for drunk driving. What I have a problem with is detention without cause, which is what a check amounts to.

 

[hammer]

Nothing unconstitutional about arrests for drunk driving. What I have a problem with is detention without cause, which is what a check amounts to.

Not entirely sure I agree, but I understand your point. Peace...

 

[Greg]

I do believe the intent to be sincere, but that doesn't change the fact that constitutional rights are being stepped on.

I will not stay up nights worrying about it, I have no kids. You on the other hand do, and it's the kids that will have to live with the consequences of our apathy.

Like many things in life, it's all about balance. Things are rarely black and white and sometimes sacrifices and compromises need to be made. If these border patrol stops result in the apprehension of some would-be terrorist (I am not arguing for or against the border patrol stops' effectiveness, mind you) which might save my kids from feeling any affect of some attack, then I'm all for that minor sacrifice in whatever constitutional right I'm forgoing.

Yup, I don't think the border patrol stop is a big deal and they've been at it for 10+ years so it's not new. They were doing them in Maine in the 90's. Which is why Ed annoyed me because it looked like he joined AZ purely to post about the Border Patrol thing. Haven't seen him post anywhere else yet about skiing. . .

My later posts are just about civil liberties in general.

Thanks for clarifying. BTW, despite quoting you and Andy to make my point, it wasn't made in response to either of you exclusively or specifically.

And regarding this thread being political - typically when specific partisan politics is brought up is when we shut these down. Discussing POVs is fine.

 

[andyzee]

L
And regarding this thread being political - typically when specific partisan politics is brought up is when we shut these down. Discussing POVs is fine.

Well, you finally made a good point in this thread.

 

[Greg]

Well, you finally made a good point in this thread.

Thanks. I'm still waiting for yours...

 

[jack97]

Since Eisenhower's presidency, the issue of executive power and accountability of the executive has been in debate base on the principle of check and balance at the Federal level. IMO, it's still ongoing, based on a PBS documentary from Frontline, the current VP when he was an aide for Nixon believed in more executive power and allied himself with a constitutional lawyer to ague his case. It looks like he is continuing that cause and with more effect. Apathy is a not a good thing right know.

 

[andyzee]

Thanks. I'm still waiting for yours...

Touché!