Can I Buy Your Pass? No.

[Bumpsis]

I spend a good portion of my life in Europe, so I know that this idea has been around for quite some time - nothing really original here, but it always made sense to me.

 

[tjm235]

When I used to work in the ticket office at my resort, I always loved the idiots that would come in all mad at the resort because the ticket they just bought from some stranger in the parking lot had all its days used up and was no longer valid.

 

[Breeze]

omg, we'll never use up the topic of ticket fraud.

There will always be someone plotting money for nothing, and chicks for free.

Breeze

 

[KingM]

One thing to keep in mind is that ticket prices are higher than they otherwise would be because of ticket fraud. Put in the simplest math possible, if the mountain needed to make $100 bucks per day to survive and they had 100 paying skiers, they could charge $1 per ticket. If only 80 people bought tickets and the other 20 cheated by buying tickets for .25 from people leaving, the tickets would cost $1.25. This would mean that 60 honest people would pay $1.25, 20 cheaters would pay $1.00 (after resell) and 20 cheaters would pay $.25.

You could make the argument that some people would not ski if they couldn't get the cheap tickets, but I'm guessing once you've made it to the lot, you're going to pay for a ticket if you can't get the discount one.

 

[riverc0il]

Nor mine. It's also not really akin to stealing tips from a bartender off a bar. It's more like finishing off someone's beer that's already been paid for after they've walked out of the bar.

Except there are not laws against doing that to the best of my knowledge. Not to mention the backwash which you don't have to worry about when lifting a ticket :lol:

Hey, I am not going to pass judgment on any one, but it is illegal. Then again, a lot of things are illegal that shouldn't be (not going there, but you know what I am talking about) but those are generally the "victimless crimes." Clearly there is a victim in this case (theft of services, victim is the business) and it seems reasonable to me that this activity should not be legal (I am a VERY harsh critic of the justice and legal systems, fwiw, and don't take lightly defending laws I normally take issue with). I would no more buy a used ticket in the parking lot than I would walk out of the Ski Area's retail store with a five finger discount.

 

[riverc0il]

Just to move the discussion in a slightly different direction, I'd say that ski areas whose tickets are are really expensive, could actually capture a bit more business and limit the lift ticket resale/gifting by issuing variable time block tickets.

I'd absolutely love an idea of a half day morning ticket or a block of 3 hours that can be used any time. If offered at a reasonable price, I'm sure that such a ticket would be interest to many, especially day trippers.

As the prices of walk up tickets cocntinue to rise, I'm sure that such alternative pricing startegies will become more attractive to both the mountain and the sliding clientelle.

This would only work if the ski area could make up the lost margin in volume. I am skeptical this could occur though I would love to see it happen. Fact is, the average skier already pays full price and only skis 4-5 hours on average, some ski less than that. If customers are already paying full price but only using half the product offered, ski areas only stand to loose money by reducing the price to allow the same skiers to ski the same amount of time. If ski areas did not make it up in volume, they would have to charge substantial amounts of money for the blocks or increase full day ticket prices. I just don't see this business model being profitable for the industry when the status quo already works so well in terms of people paying top dollar and not using the full product.

 

[Bumpsis]

This would only work if the ski area could make up the lost margin in volume. I am skeptical this could occur though I would love to see it happen. Fact is, the average skier already pays full price and only skis 4-5 hours on average, some ski less than that. If customers are already paying full price but only using half the product offered, ski areas only stand to loose money by reducing the price to allow the same skiers to ski the same amount of time. If ski areas did not make it up in volume, they would have to charge substantial amounts of money for the blocks or increase full day ticket prices. I just don't see this business model being profitable for the industry when the status quo already works so well in terms of people paying top dollar and not using the full product.

I think that my proposition of shoter and variable time blocks will make sense as a business model but perhaps in the future, when prices of day skiing tickets will become (and they really will) more expenisve - thus fewer people willing to pay big bucks for product that they don't consume in its entirety.
Perhaps at this point in time the overhead and operating costs really don't require ski ares to capture every possible income channel. As energy (and other) costs climb, retaining the same level of users will become a greater challange to ski areas. As prices of lift tickets climb, people will be gradually dropping off, at which point it will be necesary for ski areas to consider alternative pricing schemes.

It would be intersting to see if sales of half day tickets has been increasing in the past few years vs full day walk-up tickets. I'm no statcistician, but if such data were normalized for variety of other factors (market dynamics, demographics, desitnation resort vs. local/regional areas, weather related influences), it may be possible to see if there is trend towards shorter yet, more affordable ski exprereinces.

 

[threecy]

It would be intersting to see if sales of half day tickets has been increasing in the past few years vs full day walk-up tickets. I'm no statcistician, but if such data were normalized for variety of other factors (market dynamics, demographics, desitnation resort vs. local/regional areas, weather related influences), it may be possible to see if there is trend towards shorter yet, more affordable ski exprereinces.

I have not seen this trend, in part because ski areas have become smart and narrowed the gap between a full day and a half day price (nowhere near a 50% reduction).

For many New England ski areas, the big expenses are fixed, not variable - in fact, there is no real savings on the ski area's side by having a skier for half a day rather than a full day. Lifts still have to run, snow still has to be there.

 

[marcski]

Jiminy offers an anytime 4-hour ticket for slightly less than a full day pass. It's a good idea. Sometimes, I've gone solo, bought that ticket and skied straight, doing laps on the sixpack.

 

[MRGisevil]

Adult 8 hour- $57
Adult 4 hour- $53

I don't know, something doesn't seem right when you're getting an extra 4 hours of skiing for $4.

Personally, I feel if resorts gave a 2-3 hour pass at a reasonable rate, they'd end up cutting out the parking lot ticket exchanges, and making more money in the end. As their income is dependant on those full day pass buyers, and not the select few who choose to ski for a couple of hours and head home, the money they make off of those skiers could be considered a profit unaffected by the income v. overhead balance.

 

[SnowRider]

I for one would never go looking to buy someones old ticket but if someone did ask me I would probobly consider it.

 

[wintersyndrome]

Would anyone consider an "E-Z Pass" system like they use at the toll booths?
Then maybe we can do a pay-per-ride system.

Benefits

A.) we would only pay for the rides we take
B.) it would truly be non transferrable because would would want to pay for someone elses ride
C.) no more ticket scanners at the lines to hold things up.

your Thoughts?

 

[jimmer]

in earlier years i was on both ends buying and selling a ticket here and there ,not so much anymore though, there was one time i gave my ticket away for free at sugarbush, the skiing sucked so bad i couldnt take any money for it, unlike sugarbush that took mine.

 

[Lostone]

It's more like finishing off someone's beer that's already been paid for after they've walked out of the bar.

Actually, more like going to bars, but never buying beer from the bar. Instead you pay a much smaller amount to someone who isn't finishing his beer, to let you drink the rest.

If you owned a bar, you might not like the practice. Not that you would want to empty the leftover, but the norm (NORM! (Just came up, when I said norm, while I was thinking about the bar.:roll) would be that the person coming to the bar would be buying beers from you, at full price.

 

[marcski]

Actually, more like going to bars, but never buying beer from the bar. Instead you pay a much smaller amount to someone who isn't finishing his beer, to let you drink the rest.

If you owned a bar, you might not like the practice. Not that you would want to empty the leftover, but the norm (NORM! (Just came up, when I said norm, while I was thinking about the bar.:roll) would be that the person coming to the bar would be buying beers from you, at full price.

I'm sorry..but I don't really understand this post? Seems like you're saying the same thing that I did?

 

[marcski]

Would anyone consider an "E-Z Pass" system like they use at the toll booths?
Then maybe we can do a pay-per-ride system.

Benefits

A.) we would only pay for the rides we take
B.) it would truly be non transferrable because would would want to pay for someone elses ride
C.) no more ticket scanners at the lines to hold things up.

your Thoughts?

I'm not so sure the ski areas would like this. Where is their incentive for this? They'd much rather collect their $50-80 for a daily ski pass and then start selling those same people lunch and drink at noon once they stop skiing for the day.

I'd venture to say that ski areas make a lot more money from selling full day passes to people that ski far less than a full day than they lose from people "scalping" tickets in the parking lots in the afternoons.

 

[Bumpsis]

I'm not so sure the ski areas would like this. Where is their incentive for this? They'd much rather collect their $50-80 for a daily ski pass and then start selling those same people lunch and drink at noon once they stop skiing for the day.

I'd venture to say that ski areas make a lot more money from selling full day passes to people that ski far less than a full day than they lose from people "scalping" tickets in the parking lots in the afternoons.

Sure, at this point there is still enough people who are happy to pay the $ 50 - $ 80 for a day ticket. That will change once daily tickets hit $ 90 - $ 100 range. Demand for daily full day tickets will drop as fewer people will be able to afford it. Ski areas will be happy then to sell partial day tickets to get the client traffic.
There is already a good number of people who used to ski and now either limit their days on the slopes or are already priced out.
If you single or have no kids in tow, that's a bit of different story, but sometimes I wonder if spending $ 200 + for a day of skiing is worth it (2 adults, 2 kids skiing).

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Some guy wanted to buy my pass as I was leaving Belleayre yesterday. I was appalled beyond belief. These resorts blew tons of snow to barely fill the lifts only to watch it melt away, repeat, repeat, repeat for the first half of the year. Now, conditions were Spring style epic and this guy wanted to steal a ticket from the resort!?!?! $36 could have legally purchased at least two hours of top notch skiing. It might have been even less as many areas have afternoon rates - not sure about Belleayre.

This sort of thing happens all the time..The one day when I left Killington around 1:00PM early season..I drove right up to a group of people walking towards the ticket area and yelled out..anybody need a ticket..Some guy gave me $10 for it..Pretty nice because that bought me a damn good lunch for the drive home. It's a win/win situation..I got a little money and the skier saved money...The resort lost out but Killington has plenty of money...

 

[arik]

How about when someone skis using the non transferrable season pass of there friend who isn't skiing that day. I bet it happens often in group ski houses. I am sure it's illegal as the passes are non transferrable. I guess there is a risk of the passholder losing their pass, but what if they didn't know.

 

[Sky]

Steeze....you must be Jonezen to dig this thread up...from April.