Cannon Lover's Thread

[witch hobble]

Bashing? Get real daddio. Hardly been bashed.

Criticism has mostly been of lousy parenting and how it manifests itself. Also of the process that has brought us to where we are with regards to Mitt. Sold a willing public a false bill of goods....result was unsatisfying to all parties .......public/private partnership fills in the vacuum with funding directed primarily towards their own self interest.....results still playing out.

Nobody has spoken ill of the history of the FSC or it's significance. Try some context.

Donald Trump and Sarah Palin don't make me lose respect for Honest Abe and T.R.

 

[VTKilarney]

also while you're bashing you may consider thanking one of those FSC prick for creating and maintaining some of those unnamed lines we enjoy skiing

Why is it that I keep having to remind FSC advocates that prior benevolence toward the mountain does not excuse away bad behavior?

As I said earlier, the truth is likely that FSC has done some good things for the mountain, and that there are likely people affiliated with FSC that have an unjustifiable sense of entitlement. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

[JDMRoma]

Baron's was the run of the day yesterday. I didn't see anyone else on it while I was over there and the snow was rippin!

Yes I agree it's a fun run ! And seems to be a little out of the wind compared to the main mountain.

Seems to help spread people out too !




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[skiberg]

You all keep saying FSC has done something that benefits primarily them but provide no evidence. Does it benefit them; yes of course. But the primary beneficiaries are you, the season pass holders, and the public. If they are the primary beneficiaries, Baron's would be closed 5 days per week and only open to the public occasionally.

They have singled handedly made major improvements at the mountain, yet you refuse to acknowledge this because of some anti FSC prejudice or jealousy. You claim there kids are misbehaved but offer no real evidence. You wont admit that a new compressor helps everyone. Its really kind of laughable.

The evidence is above. The only reason this picture is even significant is solely because of FSC. Never before could the entire front 5 be lit up at once. This is only because of FSC's new compressor.

 

[VTKilarney]

You claim there kids are misbehaved but offer no real evidence.

I was listening until you made this absurd comment. Then I discounted everything you had said.

Nobody has said that every racer misbehaves, mind you.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

This is only because of FSC's new compressor.

No... nothing to do at all with low-E guns...

:roll:

 

[Puck it]

You all keep saying FSC has done something that benefits primarily them but provide no evidence. Does it benefit them; yes of course. But the primary beneficiaries are you, the season pass holders, and the public. If they are the primary beneficiaries, Baron's would be closed 5 days per week and only open to the public occasionally.

They have singled handedly made major improvements at the mountain, yet you refuse to acknowledge this because of some anti FSC prejudice or jealousy. You claim there kids are misbehaved but offer no real evidence. You wont admit that a new compressor helps everyone. Its really kind of laughable.

The evidence is above. The only reason this picture is even significant is solely because of FSC. Never before could the entire front 5 be lit up at once. This is only because of FSC's new compressor.

They did the same thing last for a whole week without the new compressor. Duh!

 

[Puck it]

Looks like the same pic I have from Cannon's website dated 1/10/2015

 

[skiberg]

The new compressor was put in last year in 2014. I understand no one is saying all FSC kids are spoiled brats. I guess just observing them every weekend, I never see any issues with them at all. Most of the problems are with the seasonal kids clogging up the trails. The FSC kids are just too good of skiers and I never see them act like jerks, but with 100 plus kids I guarantee it happens form time to time I just don't believe it s a real, or frequent, issue.

 

[deadheadskier]

. Also of the process that has brought us to where we are with regards to Mitt. Sold a willing public a false bill of goods....result was unsatisfying to all parties .......public/private partnership fills in the vacuum with funding directed primarily towards their own self interest.....results still playing out.

This is my only major issue. Being sold a false bill of goods. There are race brats on every hill. To deny that their behavior is poor at all ski areas is to basically admit that you are one of them. So, I deal with it.

That said, Mittersill was never sold to the general public (and it is "our" land as state property / not FSC's property) as a race venue. There are quotes from JD in the Boston Globe from the time that it was to be lift serviced back country with minimal improvements. I had only recently moved to NH at the time and taken advantage of the old Mittersill. I thought it was awesome. The concept of adding a lift sounded great. I knew the skiing would get tracked out faster, but having to ride two lifts and hiking the saddle was a bit of a PITA. I guess Cannon regulars knew it was going to be more than that.

I'd take the Old Mittersill back in a heart beat with no lifts. What FSC paid for is not an improvement at all in my eyes. I'd rather it be lift served and only open a short amount of time some years, than have wide boulevard trails with snowmaking. There are HUNDREDS of trails like what Barons is now in New England. HUNDREDS. There is no need for more groomed snowmaking terrain in New England. Mittersill was unique and was ruined. Even with the double chair added in, it stood out like Castle Rock at SB as an all natural terrain pod.

Will I ski a groomed Baron's and enjoy it the next time I ski Cannon? You betcha. Will I like it anywhere near as much the first time I hiked over the saddle to ski it? HELL NO. Someone like me being upset at what FSC has done to Mittersill really shouldn't be shocking. How do you think SB skiers would react if half of Castle Rock got turned into a race venue? People would be pissed. The fact that Mittersill used to be a groomed, somewhat modern ski area doesn't make it any different. That was 30 years ago.

 

[dlague]

One behavior that is annoying is the need to leave their skis on the ground. Now not all are racers but 90% of the skis are. Are they to lazy to pick them up. I make my son put them on the railing along the deck.


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[deadheadskier]

The new compressor was put in last year in 2014. I understand no one is saying all FSC kids are spoiled brats. I guess just observing them every weekend, I never see any issues with them at all. Most of the problems are with the seasonal kids clogging up the trails. The FSC kids are just too good of skiers and I never see them act like jerks, but with 100 plus kids I guarantee it happens form time to time I just don't believe it s a real, or frequent, issue.

Examples of poor behavior of race kids at ALL ski hills, not just Cannon

- Take up an unreasonable amount of space in the lodge in the morning while getting ready. Don't respect that other people are there to ski too and require space to get ready.

- Tend to make a huge mess of cafeteria tables during lunch and often don't bus their trays / disposables to the proper areas

- Parents / Families tend to try and be table hogs and claim real estate in the cafeteria for the entire day

- Will hold back to ride chairs alone together, instead of letting a single go up chairs with them. This means empty chair seats going up and longer lift lines for everyone.

- Often will try and sneak up to the front of the line and get on where ski school / patrol does to avoid the lift line

- Frequently leave their skis strewn about the hill near race training venues or near lodges.

- Ski at high rates of speed in slow skiing areas without care for those learning around them.

- Basically just an overall sense that somehow their business is more important to the ski areas than the general public. All of the above behaviors reflect this.

This isn't all race kids, but these are highly common behaviors. It never seems to change over the years because the parents are constantly telling junior how awesome they are instead of teaching them how to be respectful of others who are trying to relax and have fun in the mountains.

 

[VTKilarney]

- Parents / Families tend to try and be table hogs and claim real estate in the cafeteria for the entire day

I've never understood the parents that are willing to drive to the mountains every weekend just so they can sit in the lodge for the entire day reading a book while their kid gets a mediocre result in a race. It's no wonder why some of these kids feel a sense of entitlement.

 

[witch hobble]

^ nicely done DHS.

patrollers would also tell you that many racers and coaches completely disregard safety bars and the laws about them. Also that they are so used to getting to duck ropes for their private race/training trails that they often continue this behavior after race/training time is done. There is the feeling that "the rules don't apply to me". That's the gist of the entitlement issue.

racers are by and large adolescent males. And while I was never a racer I was an adolescent male. Notoriously assholish demographic.

 

[skiberg]

I actually agree with most of what people think about the "improvements" but I think your blaming the wrong people. Blame JD and Cannon. This was going to happen anyhow. FSC just made it happen much quicker.

As for the complaints about racers. The issues with the lodge simply don't happen. FSC is at Ernie's for almost the entire year. They are only at Peabody in the very early season and last year were not there at all. When they are at Ernie's its in the basement only. Hog a table for the whole day??? Not FSC, they are all hardcore skiers. They don't sit in the lodge and if they do its at Ernie's. Making a mess??? They eat at Ernie's.

The more I read the more I am becoming convinced your complaints might really be with the seasonal program kids. They are the one who are at Peabody not FSC.

They definitely leave there skis on the ground, but I don't think it so much more than anyone else.

Everyone try's to sneak to the front of the line from time to time. Come on. Just racers do that. No way.

I can see them trying to wait for friends on the chair and holding up the line. They are young kids with very close friendships. Mostly not a big deal since we hardly ever have lines at Cannon.

They definitely ski at high rates of speed. That is probably a legitimate complaint. But I see the general public do this every day and they cant ski. At least the kids at FSC are the most highly skilled skiers on the mountain.

I saw a guy last week literally punching his buddy at the top of the lift while smoking a cigarette. Patrol had to be called. The general public acts far worse than the racers, pass holders or Seasonal program kids.

 

[Brad J]

I can't speak for Cannon , but at Wildcat and Attitash DHS is spot on. I did some skiing in VT and it was exactly the same. Maybe Cannon is an Island in the way race kids and race parents present themselves.

 

[Puck it]

H

The new compressor was put in last year in 2014. I understand no one is saying all FSC kids are spoiled brats. I guess just observing them every weekend, I never see any issues with them at all. Most of the problems are with the seasonal kids clogging up the trails. The FSC kids are just too good of skiers and I never see them act like jerks, but with 100 plus kids I guarantee it happens form time to time I just don't believe it s a real, or frequent, issue.

you this year to all lit of though.

 

[deadheadskier]

Skiberg

The way you defend FSC and the behavior of the kids leads me to believe you are either a former member, the parent of a member or you are a coach.

I'm not a frequent Cannon skier mid season, but I do see all of this behavior when there early season in the Peabody lodge. I see this kind of lodge behavior from racers at all mountains, especially on race days when visiting teams are present. Again, this is all areas, not just Cannon.

You're missing the point on the waiting for friends. The lifties call a single out to join racers. Once they get up to the next on position, they don't go. The single goes out and rides that chair, the race kids take the next chair resulting in empty seats going up. Not a big deal at Cannon, but if they carry this over to a place like Loon where there are long lift lines, it's the behavior of spoiled brats - not kids with close friendships. If your kid does this, tell them to knock it off

No, I have never tried to cut the line and board where ski school or patrol does. If I did when I was a kid, there's a good chance my dad would have kicked my ass. If you, or your kid does this, knock it off.

Ability should have nothing to do with skiing at a high rate of speed in slow skiing zones. If it's your kid, tell them to knock it off. Plenty of places on the mountain for going mach schnell.

It is true, that everyone, not just racers leave their skis strewn about, but they should be the last to do it.

The fact is that Racer kids and seasonal program kids alike should be setting the standard of respect and doing things the right way. If you are affiliated with the team, you should care MORE than the rest of us that your kids are setting the standard. I hope my young son falls in love with the sport and wants to join the Wildcat team when he gets older. If he behaves inappropriately, I'll pull him off the team.

Regarding Mittersill - if you agree with me and others about the changes there, don't constantly defend it as improvements that we should be grateful for.

 

[Tin]

- Frequently leave their skis strewn about the hill near race training venues or near lodges.

Tripped and busted my tailbone because of this last year trying to avoid them. New rule, I walk and step on them. I won't go out of my way to step on them, but if they are in my path I don't care. So done with this behavior. Not just by racers.

3/7 times at Cannon a few Saturday's ago we had racers ask if they could cut us to join friends. The first time I said yes, then no after that. So both times they let us go ahead and asked the people behind us. That being said, it happens at all places. Just wish lifties would get a little tougher.

If there is one person sitting at a table for 6,7,8, I don't care anymore. Will sit right down. I'm surprised there are so few milfs in ski lodges, a lot more in hockey rinks.

 

[skiberg]

So you Ski at Wildcat? That's might be why you don't know FSC doesn't ski out of Peabody. That might be a Wildcat issue but the mess thing and hogging tables is not an issue with FSC. Other things you list might be debatable.

My issue with the whole Mtitersill thing is people keep claiming it only helps FSC. It does not only help them. My god they improved snowmaking capacity for the whole hill by something like 60%.

I think people are conflating there disdain for the changing of Mittersill with FSC. Unfortunately that was coming anyhow. FSC did not even begin talking to the state until after Mittersill was already back in the fold. JD was angling to put snowmaking there the whole time. Snowmaking was always going back in at Mittersill. If you don't believe it ask him. FSC just gave him the capital to make it happen and the ability to sell it to the state. FSC got a quid pro quo for coming up with the money; very limited guarantees for training time. That's it.