Cannon Mountain...thoughts

[deadheadskier]

Even if the 130,000 skier visits were 100% state residents who only skied one day a year, that would mean 99% of the state doesn't ski there.

There are many, many, tax funded projects/services in the State that have low overall use percentage by residents.

I'll bring up Hampton Beach State Park again. State is spending 14M there for improvements. Does every resident of the State of NH use that park? Hell no. But they could if they wanted to.

 

[threecy]

I'll bring up Hampton Beach State Park again. State is spending 14M there for improvements.

Approved by the same people who approved spending $2.6M+ on the double chairlift at Mittersill. Fortunately, voters decided to change things shortly thereafter.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Quick question, with all the talk in this very heated debate, people for pro lease have stated that the status quo hurts surrounding ski resorts, but has any privately held ski area complained about it?

 

[deadheadskier]

.......yup, voters like you, have elected officials who are now taking away public funding from the State University system resulting in higher tuition costs and giving it directly to private for profit institutions like Dartmouth and Colby Sawyer who already have massive endowments.

If you'd like, I can show you a newspaper article on it. Something you can't show us concerning the Environmental 'catastrophe' going on at Cannon.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

There are many, many, tax funded projects/services in the State that have low overall use percentage by residents.

I'll bring up Hampton Beach State Park again. State is spending 14M there for improvements. Does every resident of the State of NH use that park? Hell no. But they could if they wanted to.

Did Theercy say he supported such a expenditure? I am asking this in all seriousness. My thinking is that he probably doesn't support such a waste. Not sure why he would mention it here though as this is a ski forum. If he does support the Hampton Beach waste then fine, I am curious to know why.

In regards to Hampton Beach I do feel their should be a life guard station and bathrooms (not of the 14 million dollar variety).....all things that really can't be leased out....where as Cannon could be leased....if there are takers.

 

[deadheadskier]

I believe he has stated that he is/was against the Hampton expenditures.

I was just giving one of many, many examples where big investments of public money are made towards projects and services that are used by only a small percentage of NH residents.

 

[Black Phantom]

I believe he has stated that he is/was against the Hampton expenditures.

I was just giving one of many, many examples where big investments of public money are made towards projects and services that are used by only a small percentage of NH residents.

Rather dubious comparison comparing the beach to a ski area, which brings throngs of visitors throughout the summer daily to the beach and surrounding communities. I think it can be fairly stated that an extremely large amount of NH residents, as well as vacationers throughout the region, enjoy these attractions pumping large amounts of revenue into the local economy.

I would imagine that Hampton brings in more tourists daily throughout the summer than Cannon does in an entire season. Let's not even factor in the costs between the two activities and the revenue received by the State.

 

[deadheadskier]

you'll get no argument from me on rooms and meals tax revenues and that the operating costs of Hampton Beach are significantly lower. It's definitely a bigger economic engine than Cannon.

The Revenue the state receives from the park is only parking revenue and is much less than Cannon. But, the secondary income is higher yes.

 

[Black Phantom]

you'll get no argument from me on rooms and meals tax revenues and that the operating costs of Hampton Beach are significantly lower. It's definitely a bigger economic engine than Cannon.

The Revenue the state receives from the park is only parking revenue and is much less than Cannon. But, the secondary income is higher yes.

I do not think that this parking revenue is anything to sneeze at. It does not require much recurring investment or maintenance from the State to reap significant financial reward.

Here is a pdf from a quick search out lining parking fees from 2010. No NH discount either!

http://www.hamptonbeach.org/pdf/PARKINGLETTERtoBUSINESS2011.pdf

OUR PARKING RATES ARE AS FOLLOWS:
WEEKLY $75---24hr parking Saturday thru Friday night (Out by 10am Saturday)
WEEKEND SPECIAL--$50--Friday after 3pm, until Sunday at midnight
Does not include Forth of July or Seafood Weekends
OVERNIGHT---$15—arrive after 3pm out next day by 10am
Individuals wishing to stay for the next day may do so by paying the daily fee.
DAILY
$5/10 ----- Monday-Friday
$10/15-----Weekends & Holidays

 

[Puck it]

It is NH. You know!

 

[deadheadskier]

I do not think that this parking revenue is anything to sneeze at. It does not require much recurring investment or maintenance from the State to reap significant financial reward.

Here is a pdf from a quick search out lining parking fees from 2010. No NH discount either!

http://www.hamptonbeach.org/pdf/PARKINGLETTERtoBUSINESS2011.pdf

Did I say it was something to sneeze at? All I said was it's less revenue than Cannon.

The operating expenses are low at Hampton and the profit margins are strong. But if I recall correctly (not going to search through 77 pages of this thread to find the graph) it was something like 500K in profit annually. So, it will take many years for the state to recoup a 14M investment at that kind of pay out.

 

[Black Phantom]

Did I say it was something to sneeze at? All I said was it's less revenue than Cannon.

The operating expenses are low at Hampton and the profit margins are strong. But if I recall correctly (not going to search through 77 pages of this thread to find the graph) it was something like 500K in profit annually. So, it will take many years for the state to recoup a 14M investment at that kind of pay out.

I did not say that you sneezed. If you did, gesundheit. And why not search? You have the tools at hand.:lol:

Hampton is showing true earnings revenue. Real money. Very limited expenses. Unlike ongoing capital and operational costs that are required to operate a ski area.

And don't forget the toll revenue that pours into NH daily heading to the beach that otherwise would not be traveling there.

 

[deadheadskier]

There are numerous other State Parks that operate in the red every year including Mount Washington. Cannon isn't the only state funded park that isn't produce the kind of return that Hampton does. Should all of the parks in the red be leased?

And trust me, I'm well aware of that toll to get off of 95 and onto 101. I use it 5 days a week. The beach helps that revenue, but I'd say for every car that goes East on 101 to that beach, 10 cars are locals heading west to Exeter, Stratham, Epping ect. I'd put the number of cars staying on 95 to go to Maine at 100 to 1 compared to getting off for Hampton. Anyone coming from the West and primary population center of the State doesn't use that toll booth at all.

Let's not forget, Cannon skiers have to go through tolls as well.

Go ahead and put the toll argument out there. It's valid. But, I don't think it really helps in justifying a 14M tax payer funded beach project. Which by the way, I'm all for the 14M beach project.

 

[Black Phantom]

There are numerous other State Parks that operate in the red every year including Mount Washington. Cannon isn't the only state funded park that isn't produce the kind of return that Hampton does. Should all of the parks in the red be leased?

And trust me, I'm well aware of that toll to get off of 95 and onto 101. I use it 5 days a week. The beach helps that revenue, but I'd say for every car that goes East on 101 to that beach, 10 cars are locals heading west to Exeter, Stratham, Epping ect. I'd put the number of cars staying on 95 to go to Maine at 100 to 1 compared to getting off for Hampton. Anyone coming from the West and primary population center of the State doesn't use that toll booth at all.

Let's not forget, Cannon skiers have to go through tolls as well.

Go ahead and put the toll argument out there. It's valid. But, I don't think it really helps in justifying a 14M tax payer funded beach project. Which by the way, I'm all for the 14M beach project.

So I take it you agree?

 

[threecy]

There are numerous other State Parks that operate in the red every year including Mount Washington.

How much is Mount Washington State Park losing? Do you have recent data to back this up, especially after the lease renogiations?

Let's not forget, Cannon skiers have to go through tolls as well.

Go ahead and put the toll argument out there. It's valid.

How many Cannon skiers go through the Hooksett tolls (83 miles away)?

 

[AdironRider]

How much is Mount Washington State Park losing? Do you have recent data to back this up, especially after the lease renogiations?




How many Cannon skiers go through the Hooksett tolls (83 miles away)?

Id be willing to wager at least 50% go through. Where else would they come from? VT? Doubtful. Anyone who goes up 16 is most likely skiing the Mt. Washington area resorts.

 

[Black Phantom]

Id be willing to wager at least 50% go through. Where else would they come from? VT? Doubtful. Anyone who goes up 16 is most likely skiing the Mt. Washington area resorts.

Many NH residents drive south to Cannon.

 

[AdironRider]

Many NH residents drive south to Cannon.

From where exactly? Colebrook, Pittsburg? I see Littleton and Franconia, but those arent HUGE population bases. 50% is not an unrealistic number for the Hooksett tolls.

 

[Black Phantom]

From where exactly? Colebrook, Pittsburg? I see Littleton and Franconia, but those arent HUGE population bases. 50% is not an unrealistic number for the Hooksett tolls.

Not everyone that skis Cannon is from the metro MA/Boston area.

 

[AdironRider]

Yeah, but everyone from Southern NH that does goes that route, as well as all the Massholes. I grew up in Exeter and was a passholder at Cannon. 101 to 93 the whole way. Ive probably paid that toll a couple hundred times at least, and Im just one NH resident skiing Cannon.