cash for clunkers

[wa-loaf]

I guess I'd agree but we're taking apples and apple here. The vehicles that are getting traded in are gasoline powered with internal combustion engines. It's not like it's "trade in your S-10 Blazer for a hoverboard." You get money to trade something in that gets slightly better mileage. And one thing no one mentions...once people get more fuel efficient cars, they tend to drive more. Ooops! "Hey, that $60 of gas can now get me farther north!" Oh well!

If this was for domestics only, I'd say it's another way to "help" (albeit another I don't agree with) them. But since every brand is pumping this hard, I hardly see how this will help "save" Detroit.

Great quote in the WSJ yesterday:"On the other hand, this is crackpot economics. The subsidy won’t add to net national wealth, since it merely transfers money to one taxpayer’s pocket from someone else’s, and merely pays that taxpayer to destroy a perfectly serviceable asset in return for something he might have bought anyway. By this logic, everyone should burn the sofa and dining room set and refurnish the homestead every couple of years."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204313604574326531645819464.html

I don't think anyone is arguing it's good economics. It's feel-good economics that may give a slight bump in the fuel economy of the overall fleet and bail out the car manufacturers. Although I don't agree that it's merely a transfer of money. If it preserves jobs, those are folks who are still out there spending money in the economy.

 

[drjeff]

I don't think anyone is arguing it's good economics. It's feel-good economics that may give a slight bump in the fuel economy of the overall fleet and bail out the car manufacturers. Although I don't agree that it's merely a transfer of money. If it preserves jobs, those are folks who are still out there spending money in the economy.

If it was really about job preservation than it would apply to cars assembled in the US only! You could further argue on the job preservation standpoint that the parent company of that US assembled car should be based in the US.

While the good folks in Korea assembling Hyundai's I'm sure are deserving of their pay, since this is a program being funded in one form or another by the US tax payer (heck, sooner or later we gotta pay that borrowed $$ back to China & Co.) having direct benefit to US workers from US owned companies might be a bit wiser use of tax payer dollars

 

[wa-loaf]

If it was really about job preservation than it would apply to cars assembled in the US only! You could further argue on the job preservation standpoint that the parent company of that US assembled car should be based in the US.

While the good folks in Korea assembling Hyundai's I'm sure are deserving of their pay, since this is a program being funded in one form or another by the US tax payer (heck, sooner or later we gotta pay that borrowed $$ back to China & Co.) having direct benefit to US workers from US owned companies might be a bit wiser use of tax payer dollars

Thing is where do you draw the line? You also have to consider all the dealers, truckers and transport companies that benefit from moving these new cars around the country. It's not just about who owns the company.

 

[dmc]

But Hundais are sold by americans... serviced by americans... The koreans pay tariffs to us to sell their cars here...

you guys are being shortsighted for some reason... there more to cars then some guy in Korea making them...

 

[deadheadskier]

dmc brings up a good point

Kia is opening a new factory in West Point Georgia. 2500 jobs at the factory, 20K total for the area over the next five years.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/worklife/07/08/fortunate.town/

yes, most of the profits end up going back to Korea, but that's still 20K people making and spending money here in the states. Actually, I'm sure plenty of the profit money ends up staying here in the states via stock purchases by US citizens.

 

[dmc]

Take it from a guy that works with people and travels all over the world to seel and install software for an American company.....

We ARE in a global economy.. We NEED other countries to do well so we can do well...
If it were not for other countries - I'd be on the unemployment line...

 

[mondeo]

Actually, I'm sure plenty of the profit money ends up staying here in the states via stock purchases by US citizens.

US citizens buy stock?

Why do we want low paying manufacturing jobs in the US?

 

[mondeo]

Take it from a guy that works with people and travels all over the world to seel and install software for an American company.....

We ARE in a global economy.. We NEED other countries to do well so we can do well...
If it were not for other countries - I'd be on the unemployment line...

And at the heart of globalization is specialization. If the US isn't good at making cars, we should shift to other industries.

 

[deadheadskier]

US citizens buy stock?

Why do we want low paying manufacturing jobs in the US?

and sell stocks. I bought some Ford Stock in November and just sold it five minutes ago after doubling my money :grin:

 

[dmc]

And at the heart of globalization is specialization. If the US isn't good at making cars, we should shift to other industries.

We are great at making cars!! My old Ford Ranger had 150,000 miles on it when i finally got a new one.. My girl owns an Pontiac that runs like a champ!!!

we need to shift from old style cars to new style cars.. (hoverboards)...
And keep the business here in the US!!!!

 

[dmc]

Why do we want low paying manufacturing jobs in the US?

Why not? not everyone needs to buy season passes and rent second houses for skiing every year... Some people just want a steady job to live in a house and have kids... if they can get health benefits with that.. then they are set...

 

[mondeo]

We are great at making cars!! My old Ford Ranger had 150,000 miles on it when i finally got a new one.. My girl owns an Pontiac that runs like a champ!!!

Making good cars is different than being good at making them. If the current American system of making cars was good, then the big 3 wouldn't be losing money.

 

[mondeo]

Why not? not everyone needs to buy season passes and rent second houses for skiing every year... Some people just want a steady job to live in a house and have kids... if they can get health benefits with that.. then they are set...

You're extremely confusing. You hate government intervention in your private life, yet welcome it when it comes to business. Want the gov't to prop up companies so the economy doesn't crash, but don't want the economy to do well through pursuit of better paying jobs.

 

[Marc]

Just a quick question here... what's with the hypotheticals? GM did fail.

They filed for Chapter 11 in June. We have bankruptcy protection for a reason, and yet we are terrified for companies to use it.

 

[RootDKJ]

My last car I gave to Nh public TV.

Cool :beer:

 

[mondeo]

GM and Dodge did fail.

FIFY.

I'm with you on the bankruptcy thing. It's not like AIG going bankrupt would cause an instant $110bn hole in the economy.

 

[Glenn]

Just a quick question here... what's with the hypotheticals? GM did fail.

They filed for Chapter 11 in June. We have bankruptcy protection for a reason, and yet we are terrified for companies to use it.

x1billion.

They should have just let chaper 11 proceed as normal. Now it's a gigantic cluster "fudgesicle" with the dealers suing to keep their unprofitable dealers open, the unions keeping their overly rich benefits and retirement packages...it's obsurd.

And let me just say...I'm all for people keeping their jobs. But throwing money at a problem for the sake of keeping a job isn't the way to do it. It ends costing us all in the end.

 

[deadheadskier]

One thing I do know

Lots of strong opinions in this thread (none of them 100% right except for mine, which for the most part I'm keeping to myself :grin and very little chance of people switching sides to an opposing view.

probably why politics is generally a crappy 'debate' on message boards and at the dinner table.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

and sell stocks. I bought some Ford Stock in November and just sold it five minutes ago after doubling my money :grin:

Congrats...that is a serious rate of return!!!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

guys cut out the political discussions!!!