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cash for clunkers

deadheadskier

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No one's going to sway anyone here.

But you're not going to get me to feel guilty for looking at the total impact of what's happening instead of the 4 year impact which many others are looking at.

And what I'm saying is in today's world, taking a look at anything beyond 4/5 years is pretty much pointless.

Five years ago, people were rampantly flipping houses and becoming millionaires over night in the real estate boom. Outside of the wars, the good times were rolling and maybe 1% of the population saw the impending doom. I did, but only because I turned down a job in mortgages because I saw the loans they were making as unsustainable based upon who they were giving money to. Didn't predict it would be this bad, but knew the gravy train wouldn't last.

Five years before that, people were becoming millionaires over night in the dot.com and technology boom. Probably half the country didn't have cell phones or know how to use email at that time.

20 years ago, we were in the S&L crisis with the government bailing the banks out to the tune of 160 billion, which at that time everyone thought would cripple future generations. Is it even a thought today? Not at all.

That's the point I'm making. Trying to forecast a 20 year period for GDP not only doesn't make any sense, it's impossible to do and a poor argument for lassiez faire economics. The past 50 years shows this. The world moves too fast. Just when people think they have it figured out, planes crash into buildings and all hell breaks loose.

That's why I asked you for examples of previous generation decisions dooming life for future generations. Whether I agree with all this stimulus/bailout or not; one things for certain and that's that five years from now I highly doubt people will even be talking about it. The world will be onto the 'next' thing by then.
 

dmc

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Can't say I blame them. But on the other hand, we're the collateral damage in this one. It's really easy to justify "helping" someone keep their dealership or their job; it's almost a tangable example. But what about the rest of us who don't get a bailout? Or have to pay for this for the next x number of years? Or the fact that money that's being thrown at saving one job, is probably costing 2 or 3 elsewhere in the ol' economy?

What about it....? What's the choice?
Do you know how close we were to having a collapse of our economy?
 

hammer

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Going back to the original question...

Didn't use the program when I bought my car last month, unfortunately my "clunker" was a bit too fuel efficient.

Seems like it's an OK program...not perfect, but I think the end result of increased new car sales is a good thing.
 

deadheadskier

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Going back to the original question...

Didn't use the program when I bought my car last month, unfortunately my "clunker" was a bit too fuel efficient.

Seems like it's an OK program...not perfect, but I think the end result of increased new car sales is a good thing.

definitely not perfect

I saw a commercial last night saying you could get a Ford 150 through this program. That's kinda effed if you ask me if one of the goals is a more fuel efficient national auto fleet.
 

drjeff

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definitely not perfect

I saw a commercial last night saying you could get a Ford 150 through this program. That's kinda effed if you ask me if one of the goals is a more fuel efficient national auto fleet.

The lovely semantics of this program, Trade in your old truck that gets 13mpg for a new truck that gets an EPA estimated 21 mpg(maybe going downhill with a tailwind for 40 miles) :lol: :rolleyes:
 

deadheadskier

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unfortunately, politics and economics go hand in hand. I don't have an issue with people expressing their views provided the tone remains civil.

I know I for one don't view this topic as a donkey vs elephant thing
 

dmc

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unfortunately, politics and economics go hand in hand. I don't have an issue with people expressing their views provided the tone remains civil.

I know I for one don't view this topic as a donkey vs elephant thing

So is it OK to respond to DrJeff? And lay/assign blame to a specific political individual who left a huge mess with a crap economy and a stupid war for another political individual who had to make some tough choices to keep our country from going under and is not making any fans of the previous individual happy?

Maybe I should just put "Throwin Stones" on and sit in the yard...
 

drjeff

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Seems like certain folks are trying to bring us closer and closer to it every day

Now that was political...
I'm done... Or I'll respond..

Did I ever once mention republicans or democrats?? socialists or capitalists?? or even terrorists?? Nope.

If you want to try and guess what I'm thinking and then go with it from there, fine your free to do so, but I puposely worded my statement to be as vague as possible for a reason, and NOT simply because of the AZ anti-political discussion rule
 

dmc

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Did I ever once mention republicans or democrats?? socialists or capitalists?? or even terrorists?? Nope.

If you want to try and guess what I'm thinking and then go with it from there, fine your free to do so, but I puposely worded my statement to be as vague as possible for a reason, and NOT simply because of the AZ anti-political discussion rule

wow... Vague statements can still mean the same thing... You know what you meant.. And you knew where it was directed..
 

mondeo

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20 years ago, we were in the S&L crisis with the government bailing the banks out to the tune of 160 billion, which at that time everyone thought would cripple future generations. Is it even a thought today? Not at all.
Nobody's talking about it, but they probably should. The S&L crisis was brought about partly by deregulation, which allowed S&Ls to make bad loans. Sound familiar? The big problem with bailouts is not the one time cost, it's the after effects. Through bailouts, the government has entered the business of subsidising risk. If you're a CEO, it's ridiculous not to take enormous risks. It works out well, you win big. If not, well, the government is there to take the financial hit. The upside of taking risks with government backing is way too big. Part of the conversation should be, what if the government didn't bail out the S&Ls? Would it have led to a different corporate leadership atmosphere that was more risk-averse, thus avoiding the current problems?

The other issue is the national debt. A country is no different than a person in this respect, where at some point people stop lending you money, and there are big problems when you don't have enough in the bank to pay the bills on the loans. The difference between people and governments is that governments can print money. Which means the solution to the national debt when it gets to the crisis point is just printing money to pay it off, leading to disgusting amounts of inflation. It's the only way out with the more of the same attitude towards government budgets.

None of us here (well, maybe ctenidae, it's his realm,) are smart enough to figure out the exact impacts 20 years down the road. And the general public will have moved on by November 2012. But that doesn't mean there aren't 20 year impacts or that we shouldn't be worried about them. Exhibit A, Japan, with 15 years of relative stagnation.
 

wa-loaf

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Seems like certain folks are trying to bring us closer and closer to it every day

Did I ever once mention republicans or democrats?? socialists or capitalists?? or even terrorists?? Nope.

If you want to try and guess what I'm thinking and then go with it from there, fine your free to do so, but I puposely worded my statement to be as vague as possible for a reason, and NOT simply because of the AZ anti-political discussion rule

C'mon no offense DrJeff, but it was pretty obvious where this was directed.
 

mondeo

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wow... Vague statements can still mean the same thing... You know what you meant.. And you knew where it was directed..

Every time i turn around all i hear is "NO" anymore... Frankly I'm happy somethings happening... My goal is to see the country succeed not our President fail...
At least he didn't basically quote the party line.
 

Marc

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I'm at least a little disappointed youtube is blocked for me and I can't see what dmc just posted. Anyone care to give me the textual version?
 

dmc

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Eddie Murphy - PArty All the Time...
 

wa-loaf

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I'm at least a little disappointed youtube is blocked for me and I can't see what dmc just posted. Anyone care to give me the textual version?

Eddie Murphy; Party All The Time.
 

deadheadskier

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I'm at least a little disappointed youtube is blocked for me and I can't see what dmc just posted. Anyone care to give me the textual version?

My girl wants to party all the time, party all the time, party all the time


the genius of Eddie Murphy
 
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