cell towers, windmills, and other structures oh my!

[YardSaleDad]

we still got to solve the world's over population problem.

Some say we are too late for that.

http://dieoff.org/

 

[Phildozer]

I ski for a lot of reasons... When I'm at a resort - I don't fret about pipes and fences... When I go into the BC I dont want to see this however...

The worst part of it is that Bud is the worst excuse for beer out there.

 

[Phildozer]

In NY state, with regard to similar debate, someone suggested building them in the land strips between divided highways such as the NYS thruway. Interesting thought...

I think this is a great idea.

On the way up to my in-laws in Watertown, New York is the Maple Ridge Windfarm www.mapleridgewind.com

Every time I drive up there, I stop and check the machines out. They are absolutely breathtaking.

Much better than a power plant.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Wind energy projects across the US have received a major blow last week from the military. I heard that there are currently over 10,000 projects in the works, the military will halt, at least tempoarily, a majority of them. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060901420.html

As far as solar...not real practical in the northeast due to the lack of sunny days. I don't know about the rest of the states but Vermont is the 5th cloudiest state in the US.

 

[skibum1321]

As far as solar...not real practical in the northeast due to the lack of sunny days. I don't know about the rest of the states but Vermont is the 5th cloudiest state in the US.

In all honesty, I'm surprised they aren't higher on the list. I remember hearing a couple of years that Burlington is cloudier than Seattle - not sure if that was actually true though.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Wind energy projects across the US have received a major blow last week from the military. I heard that there are currently over 10,000 projects in the works, the military will halt, at least tempoarily, a majority of them. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060901420.html

As far as solar...not real practical in the northeast due to the lack of sunny days. I don't know about the rest of the states but Vermont is the 5th cloudiest state in the US.

I hope this deal is not shot it just a few miiles from my house. http://thissphere.blogspot.com/2006/05/wind-turbines-proposed-for-buzzards.html

 

[izzy]

wind farms

Currently a proposed wind farm is being pushed through by local politicians in Margretville NY. Each "windmill" will be located on 5 acres on a 30 foot square cement pad. Proposed is nearly 100 and if you figure the damage to the forest during constuction combined buy property value issues, I can understand people being upset about it being located in "my back yard".

 

[from_the_NEK]

I do not agree with building large scale wind farms in fragile alpine enviroments. Global Warming (an entirely separate debate) and acid rain are already stressing these zones enough. Just look at the pictures of the Tug Hill/Maple Ridge project in NY. I particularly like the picture where they are promoting the following: "Construction is continuing on the access roads off of Snyder and Borkowski Roads. So far, over twenty access roads have been completed in the project area." That just doesn't seem right to put on rural mountaintops in Vermont.

 

[NYDrew]

Windmills, cool, but they got to put them on existing structures. Cell towers mean I don't need to carry a radio for emergencies (i'm the guy that is always so nice and gets ski patrol), but once again on structures. Lodges, unecessary, Istn it enought to have mid mountains which people like us use to base out so we never have to go to the whords at the lower lift areas.

 

[ctenidae]

There's a company (the name of which escapes me at the moment) that is building wind turbines for the tops of tall buildings. Great idea. They're smaller than the normal ones, but can still provide something like 20% of a building's power. At night, they can actually sell power back to the grid.

There's another company that's developed a thin-film printable solar panel. Right now they can print it on fabric, which has some interesting aplications (imagine awnings, or even snow fences), and they're trying to get it into a film that can be applied to windows. You could cover the Hancock tower in solar cells that would just about power the whole building.

 

[Phildozer]

I do not agree with building large scale wind farms in fragile alpine enviroments. Global Warming (an entirely separate debate) and acid rain are already stressing these zones enough. Just look at the pictures of the Tug Hill/Maple Ridge project in NY. I particularly like the picture where they are promoting the following: "Construction is continuing on the access roads off of Snyder and Borkowski Roads. So far, over twenty access roads have been completed in the project area." That just doesn't seem right to put on rural mountaintops in Vermont.

Ever actually been to the Tug Hill area? That "sensitive alpine environment" is empty hilltop and farmland.

Does what they're doing at Maple Ridge make sense for Vermont? Depends on the location. Obviously you're not going to clear-cut a mountaintop for a turbine but if a farmer wants to put one in his field, I say go nuts. If people don't like the turbine, then put in a coal-powered generator instead. Power has to come from *somewhere*.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I didn't mean to imply that the Tug Hill area is a fragile alpine environment :-?. It obviously isn't :dunce: . What I was saying is that this is the type of road construction that would likely occur in the ridgeline environments and that's not cool. :evil:
I totally agree with you that large expanses of relatively flat open field/forest is a very good place to build wind farms. I used to live in Iowa where the wind seems like it blows at a constant 4-5 MPH and often faster. I know there have been some wind developments constructed in the plain states but why these states aren't the primary focus of the development of wind power generation facilities is beyond me. Sure, farmland is valuable but sticking a wind turbine on every corner of the 1x1 mile road grid they have out there (the turbines could be hooked right into the power line that is right there too) would not take up a significant amount of room.
Back to mountain top turbine development; they would definitely have to clear a major road to the top of the mountain to install the turbines, as well as clearing a lot of the alpine forest that in these areas. Mountain tops also create a much higher occurrence of rime icing as well which decreases the efficiency of the turbines. A high capacity power line would also have to be cleared out as well. The location would also make maintenance difficult, especially in winter.
So in short what I'm saying is that the Tug Hill plateau is a perfect place for a wind farm due to much easier access and a lot less heavy modification of the landscape.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Why is RURAL northeastern Vermont the focus of three separate companies that want to use it's ridgelines for wind power? :-? Why not put the wind power generation facilities in the back yard of more densly populated areas that could actually see a major benefit from the locally produced power? :idea: Here in northeastern VT, I believe we already have enough hydro power in the immediate area to produce almost all the power we need. I'm not sure where all of the power from the two largest (Moore and Comerford) dams on the Connecticut River goes.
I do know that during that huge black out that hit the East Coast a while back that Lyndonville Electric customers were not effected since they were able to pull out of the main grid and run on just the several small dams that are on the Passumpsic River. So why stick us with the highly invasive/visible ridgeline wind towers?

 

[ctenidae]

Why is RURAL northeastern Vermont the focus of three separate companies that want to use it's ridgelines for wind power?

1) Land is cheap
B) Not too many people to complain
Third- the state gov't would like to have the money
Last- VTis close to Canada
Finally, electricity can be transmitted long distances, so there's really no such thing as "local" power.

 

[pizza]

Ever drive from LA to Palm Springs? miles and miles and miles of windmills.. it's really impressive.

and, in the background, mt. san jacinto..

hiked it last summer..

 

[from_the_NEK]

The key is that they didn't put the turbines on Mt. San Jacinto. I think wind tubines are a good thing but the wind companies have to have some amount of discression in where they try to build them. Judging from the pictures (I have never been there), I actually think that those turbines in the valley actually make it more interesting to look at rather than a semi-desert landscape (i.e. no trees to look at).

 

[Phildozer]

So in short what I'm saying is that the Tug Hill plateau is a perfect place for a wind farm due to much easier access and a lot less heavy modification of the landscape.

Gotcha.

Then I agree with you 100%.

 

[pizza]

The key is that they didn't put the turbines on Mt. San Jacinto. I think wind tubines are a good thing but the wind companies have to have some amount of discression in where they try to build them. Judging from the pictures (I have never been there), I actually think that those turbines in the valley actually make it more interesting to look at rather than a semi-desert landscape (i.e. no trees to look at).

I see you're point - they didn't stick them up at 10,000 feet - but the valley has higher winds than there is at 10,000 feet. If 10,000 feet is where the wind was, and the place needed electricity, what do you suggest?

Palm springs is actually a bad example for this question, because the solar radiation there is so intense (bright sun) that they would be able to put a very efficient sun farm there. So assume I'm asking about the east.
coal? nuclear? hydroelectric?

 

[Angus]

in terms of location, there are few areas in NE that could support large wind turbine projects - the wind needs to blow a majority of the time. I once saw a map - w. maine and portions of the shore line - & I guess NEK fit the profile. Suitable areas in NE are not as prevalent as you'd think - I just remember being very surprised.

drive through w. texas and my understaning is that the landscape is littered with windmills.

as an aside, a major battle in Maine at the turn of the century was over hydro power generated by maine rivers being exported out of state - I believe there was a state mandated prohibition for many, many years - could still be in place - dont' know.