COVID concerns in the Northeast

[Smellytele]

Hopefully true in general, but it doesn't help the particular case I'm thinking of...the restaurant has a deck next to the sidewalk but several feet up, so the diners are actually above head level on the sidewalk.

Also wind and heat can effect where to droplets go. We aren’t talking rain drops, we’re talking mist you can’t even see.

 

[da-bum]

Look at it this way. In NYC people walk around with masks. Yet people sitting right next to the sidewalk in outdoor dining spots , do not. Whats the point.
Indoor dining: wear a mask when you walk in , then take it off when you sit down. ???

most resteraunts are just barely complying with the laws just so they can open up. If they can get away with something, they will. Look at all the outdoor dining setups where they covered up all four sides of their tent, effectively making it an indoor dining space, while still keeping the same table spacing. Of the all the ones I passed by, on a few have actually do something to enhance diners' safety, like putting plexiglass panels between tables. A popular restaurant in Long Island I went a few times went from having 25% of tables reserved, to 50%, both when allowed, now to what looks like 70% of the tables, with many within arm-reach to each other (probably going by their interpretation of 6ft between the edge of the tables, and having 50% of max occupancy, with the assumption not every table will be fully occupied). Plus they still overbook like crazy where we had to wait 45min in the extremely overpacked waiting area. I didn't feel completely uncomfortable, but felt worse for the host/hostess that has to be in that environment on a daily basis.

 

[flakeydog]

I have not been to an indoor restaurant to eat since March and here is why.... when I thought about it I realized there is a great visual that recreates how we circulate , and share, the air. Some of us are old enough to remember when you could smoke in bars and most restaurants. That haze of smoke that almost prevents you from seeing across the room represents air that has passed through someone else's lungs at some point. Granted some of that smoke is just from smoldering cigarettes but not much. That is all shared air. Even if one table or group in a room with 25+ people in it are smoking, you can tell- you can smell it and/or see it.

If you take this scenario outside, the effect is significantly diminished. The additional airflow and volume of space allows the smoke to dissipate exponentially faster. And speaking of outside, you know when it's cold and you can see your breath? It's those pesky water droplets that COVID likes to hitch a ride on in visual form. Fun stuff!

 

[kbroderick]

I have not been to an indoor restaurant to eat since March and here is why.... when I thought about it I realized there is a great visual that recreates how we circulate , and share, the air. Some of us are old enough to remember when you could smoke in bars and most restaurants. That haze of smoke that almost prevents you from seeing across the room represents air that has passed through someone else's lungs at some point. Granted some of that smoke is just from smoldering cigarettes but not much. That is all shared air. Even if one table or group in a room with 25+ people in it are smoking, you can tell- you can smell it and/or see it.

If you take this scenario outside, the effect is significantly diminished. The additional airflow and volume of space allows the smoke to dissipate exponentially faster. And speaking of outside, you know when it's cold and you can see your breath? It's those pesky water droplets that COVID likes to hitch a ride on in visual form. Fun stuff!

If you want to revisit those days, feel free to visit Wyoming. I blinked a few times before answering when asked "Smoking or non?" going in to a restaurant there a couple years ago.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The natural airflow outside does a lot to prevent transmission. Very few if any confirmed cases of outdoor transmission. One reason why skiing should be pretty darn safe.

I dont "guarantee" much when it comes to science as that's not how science works, but I pretty much guarantee you can catch COVID19 outside. While moving downhill skiing? No. But certainly outdoor dining next to or being close to an infected person(s) for a while on a non-windy day.

 

[Puck it]

I dont "guarantee" much when it comes to science as that's not how science works, but I pretty much guarantee you can catch COVID19 outside. While moving downhill skiing? No. But certainly outdoor dining next to or being close to an infected person(s) for a while on a non-windy day.
Can you post a paper or study proving your hypothesis? I have not seen anything on outside transmission to that effect.

 

[abc]

I dont "guarantee" much when it comes to science as that's not how science works, but I pretty much guarantee you can catch COVID19 outside. While moving downhill skiing? No. But certainly outdoor dining next to or being close to an infected person(s) for a while on a non-windy day.

Can you post a paper or study proving your hypothesis? I have not seen anything on outside transmission to that effect.

You may try googling?

A while back, I came across a study in lancet (the mother of all "not-yet-reviewed" papers), in which the paper detailed a case of a couple of people having a conversation outdoors in close proximity for 1/2 hr and got infected. They did an exhausted search of other source of infection and found none. So concluded that 1/2 hr long conversation OUTDOORS has to be the transmission route.

The very fact that even in countries that has relatively few cases and very rigorous contact tracing, they weren't able to nail every single case of transmission points to the reality that we don't have the full knowledge of all the possible transmission channels! In fact, the percentage of untraceable transmission is a sign we have missed quite some transmission venues that aren't obvious or "not proven"!

That's why we're still wiping down groceries and washing our hands so much. While it's "proven" indoor air transmission is a much bigger issue, we couldn't rule out surface transmission completely. We're still too busy controlling the "major" transmission venue, we don't really have much of a handle of the "minor" transmission venues.

So ignore those less obvious transmission venue at your own peril.

Having said all that, I'm a firm believer that outdoor transmission is low risk. There's not much of case increase following all the protest back in the summer. So while it's quite possible to transmit the virus even in outdoor setting, it's also pretty obvious the risk is low.

 

[flakeydog]

I dont "guarantee" much when it comes to science as that's not how science works, but I pretty much guarantee you can catch COVID19 outside. While moving downhill skiing? No. But certainly outdoor dining next to or being close to an infected person(s) for a while on a non-windy day.
Can you post a paper or study proving your hypothesis? I have not seen anything on outside transmission to that effect.

Cant say I read every one but deep-state google could get you started.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...d=0ahUKEwjnpqmml8HtAhXDSt8KHd9vBc04ChDh1QMIDA

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...NS41mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab

https://www.utsa.edu/today/2020/09/story/covid-spread-outdoor-conditions.html

Seems like:
-Outdoor is better than indoor
-Far away is better than close
-Short time is better than long time
-Mask better than no mask
-Aerosol transmission is a real bitch no matter where you are
-You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink

Key terms: Proximity, Duration, Aerosols, Common Sense

 

[kingslug]

If the city is good with it..so be it. They also appear to be good with homeless tent cities popping up on sidewalks down the block from me. Its a different world here these days.

 

[Puck it]

Cant say I read every one but deep-state google could get you started.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...d=0ahUKEwjnpqmml8HtAhXDSt8KHd9vBc04ChDh1QMIDA

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1...NS41mAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab

https://www.utsa.edu/today/2020/09/story/covid-spread-outdoor-conditions.html

Seems like:
-Outdoor is better than indoor
-Far away is better than close
-Short time is better than long time
-Mask better than no mask
-Aerosol transmission is a real bitch no matter where you are
-You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink

Key terms: Proximity, Duration, Aerosols, Common Sense

I was asking for a paper stating risk is high.

 

[abc]

I dont "guarantee" much when it comes to science as that's not how science works, but I pretty much guarantee you can catch COVID19 outside. While moving downhill skiing? No. But certainly outdoor dining next to or being close to an infected person(s) for a while on a non-windy day.

Can you post a paper or study proving your hypothesis? I have not seen anything on outside transmission to that effect.

was asking for a paper stating risk is high.

 

[2Planker]

My fear is about a week from now the Thanksgiving superspread will hit the hospitals and things will get shut down. 50 million people traveled..

It's already started in downtown Boston.
Our Covid Testing line (for Symptomatic Patients only) is now 5+ Blocks long. Normal is 2 blocks since Julyish

 

[dblskifanatic]

Seems like the right decision.

We of course bailed on Thanksgiving. We usually host, and didn't. Also scraped X-mas and Chanukah.

It sucks, but hey, don't want to get anyone sick, or get sick really, so....and we do want to ski....so feels right to limit some risks if we are gonna take some others....

We move over thanksgiving weekend and drove from Colorado to MA 9 states four over nights and ate along the way! Just did not deal with other people unless it was a convenience store or restaurant.

 

[mister moose]

Droplets don't float upward. You're safe walking by people sitting down (unless you're very short)

Disagree.

Most of the guidelines being quoted are just that, guidelines. The fact is that droplets come in lots of sizes, and the really small ones (ie aerosols) are light enough to stay suspended for days. Not hours, days. Luckily that percentage is low, but the longer the exposure, the smaller the airspace, and the more people, the higher the viral load. So there's nothing magic about 6 feet, there is nothing magic about a cloth mask, and there is nothing magic about 25% capacity. Outdoors has the added plus of UV degrading the virus spores . It's all about reducing the intake of virus to such a low level you can fight it off, or if you have it and are a-symptomatic, the guidelines keep you mostly adequately unable to pass the virus, but the guidelines are not an absolute.

 

[Los]

Very good operation at Mount Snow yesterday. Anyone not wearing a mask or wearing one improperly was flagged very quickly.

Regarding the VT travel ban, I will note that the real problem that I see are the bars and restaurants in VT - their parking lots have been filled at night - with locals!

Oh. My. God. Those selfish, rotten, ignorant, anti-science bastards! They are literally murdering us all!!

 

[Los]

Lol just caught up with this thread. Hilariously unhinged, as are most things covid-related. Thanks for the entertainment all!

 

[Los]

Just one last note - hats off to Bretton Woods - they’re following all the ridiculous protocols of course; but what I did not see once when we skied there on Sunday was anyone (employee or skier) making any remark to anyone about wearing a mask or how well they were wearing it. There were zero mask admonishments as far as I could tell. As should be the case.

 

[abc]

Droplets don't float upward. You're safe walking by people sitting down (unless you're very short)

Disagree.

Outdoors has the added plus of UV degrading the virus spore

What was the context? What's there to disagree???

 

[abc]

There were zero mask admonishments

And zero mask wearing too?

 

[dmort]

Belleayre opened today - watched the webcam all day - saw almost no one! I'm headed there this weekend and I'll post back. I'm also aiming for Crotched Mtn in NH and Whiteface before 2020 is done - hopefully people follow the rules and mountains stay open.