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Covid Vaccine

ctenidae

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Booster upon booster. You and I mean the plural will contract the virus as this is not going away. It will be the same as the flu.
I think you're probably right - before long the pandemic will just be endemic.

I predict that within a month, February at the latest, you won't see "booster" anymore. Instead it will just be the "third dose." The thing about novel viruses is we don't know anything about them, so initial conclusions are likely to be wrong. There were a lot of issues in the overall response to the pandemic, both here and globally. The biggest blunder, I think, is the poor handling of information and communication. The political environment certainly fed into that, amplifying any mistake far beyond reality.

It wasn't known if it was airborne, so no need to start a panic rush for PPE when healthcare workers need it for sure. Then it was established as airborne and we had enough PPE flowing so mask guidance was changed. Vaccines typically reduce the viral load significantly, so that was the expectation here. Didn't turn out to be the case, because this virus has some tricks up its sleeve, so the guidance has changed. It wasn't known how long vaccine or infectious immunity would last, so they set up the initial doses and had to wait to see how long it lasted. We'll find out in 6-8 months if the booster sticks, and guidance will likely change.

None of this is any great failing on science's part. In fact, it's exactly what's supposed to happen. The vaccine doesn't prevent all spread, and doesn't prevent all infections, but it does nearly eliminate the chance you die or get severely ill, which adds up "worth it" in my book.
 

abc

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The biggest blunder, I think, is the poor handling of information and communication.
When you say "blunder", it sounded like someone (or more than one) made some conscious decision on "how to handle" the information and communication. But I don't think that's ever the case. Politicians rarely "handle information". But they do "communicate" constantly. That's their being. And the media provides the platform. Only what they "communicate" often had nothing to do with the "information".

What I'm seeing is politicians "communicate" with their foot in their mouth half of the time! And the media shove that foot further in till any wiggle room can be eliminated!

The science is simple. "We don't know". But ask any politician to admit that? They would see it as suicidal. The media is even worse, they have to pretend they know more than the rest of us. So "we don't know" is always followed by some "expert opinions" pull out of thin air. So while the "information" is "don't know yet", the "communication" is... depending on your social political perspective.

It's been going on for so long the population can't believe anyone "doesn't know" anything at all. There's always an answer to every question. Even if that answer is totally baseless.

So, instead of "blunder" by specific individual on specific information, the airway is simply filled with junks.

We're all equally guilty of that. We're here speculating, with no access to raw data. And even if we do have access to data, who would put the time in to understand it? Our only excuse is, we know we're doing it for entertainment. But many here are acting like they're serious! :rolleyes:
 

drjeff

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Simple thing that BOTH sides of the politcial aisle need to do.

Some on the right need to just get the jab

Some on the left need to take their masks off. especailly for just about all of the school aged kids in class. And have their been ANY documented deaths from the Omicron Variant, in the entire world, yet? Because based on the spin its being given you'd think that this variant is pure doomsday the last few weeks since it's name hit the media cycle

While the majority of both politcail leanings get this, there certainly are some fringe folks on both sides who have seemingly lost the ability (arguably some may of never had it) to think critically about thimgs and not just take their favorite media sourced narrative as absolute!
 

abc

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While the majority of both politcail leanings get this, there certainly are some some fringe folks on both sides who have seemingly lost the ability (arguably some may of never had it) to think critically about thimgs and not just take their favorite media sourced narrative as absolute!
Sadly, I don't think your assessment of majority vs fringe is right. I found far too many people can't think critically, whatever their political leaning.

It doesn't help the media keeps on telling people they're wrong in using their common sense!

Some on the right need to just get the jab
I move in a largely "left" circle (ok, center left). It's shocking for me to find out how many of them still haven't got the jab!

Because of the "echo chamber" effect, the vaccine hesitant on the left stayed silent. But with the vaccine requirement to enter indoor space (restaurant/gym) being actively enforced, those who hasn't got the jab are finally exposed! (that said, they're typically not antivaxers. They are finally getting off their butt for their jabs. Late but better than never)
 

ctenidae

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The fringes of both sides are louder and more powerful than usual, for sure. The worst part is the "leaders" at the fringes are far better, and more cynical, critical thinkers than the people they (mis)lead.

To me, the vaccine calculus is pretty easy - getting it is the lower risk, low effort option. It's not politics, it's logic.

Masks get a bit more complicated, but I lean towards the "personal liberty" side. Not because I think there's some freedom being trampled but because I'm willing to make risk assessments as I go. If I'm the only person for 20 feet in a store, I'm less likely to wear a mask. I'm fine in a restaurant that has a few tables, but get less comfortable when it suddenly fills up with a lot of talking people. If store staff is all wearing masks, I'll wear a mask. If I'm tired, or thinking about something else, I'll usually default to wearing a mask.

My wife just wears a mask as a matter of course and to err on the side of caution. I think she's waiting for me to get COVID so she can say "told you so."
 
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abc

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The fringes of both sides are louder and more powerful than usual, for sure. The worst part is the "leaders" at the fringes are far better, and more cynical, critical thinkers than the people they (mis)lead.
Nah. Those "leaders" are just more self-righteous. They think they know with strong conviction. It's not entirely their "fault" that so many others defer to these "leaders" in critical thinking.

I do fear individual rights are in danger of being trampled in some of the questionable "mandates". I have my personal preferences (triple jabbed, wear mask ONLY when REQUIRED). But I fully understand my preferences aren't entirely/fully supported by data, as data don't exist to support or refute some of the practices. That said, I'm not lending my voice to the chorus of anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers who refuse for illogical reason, or worse, blatantly political motivations.
 

drjeff

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I wonder what the situation, with respect to COVID would be like, if (and I fully understand that this is pure fantasy world stuff here) politicians stayed out of it, and the media just reported objectively on it?

My guess is that things would be quite different on so many fronts, in a better way, and that likely sums up so many of the issues going on in this country. It's not as much about the actual "problem" as it is about the various folks telling us about the problem
 

abc

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I think people assign too much blame to the messengers and not enough blame on the morons who lack common sense.
It doesn't help the media keeps on telling people they're wrong in using their common sense!
When you have someone telling you your common sense is wrong for decades, guess what level of confidence you have on your common sense?

Isn't it easier to "believe" in some self-righteous talking head instead?
 

Edd

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Always in search of a bogeyman stealing your rights, right wing media zeroed in on vaccinations, masks, whatevs.. Bad choice, unhelpful. That’s one single thing everyone should have agreed upon.
 

drjeff

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Always in search of a bogeyman stealing your rights, right wing media zeroed in on vaccinations, masks, whatevs.. Bad choice, unhelpful. That’s one single thing everyone should have agreed upon.

If one is also being honest, they will remember that many a politician on the left, as well as some in the Media, expressed their skepticism and resistance initially prior to the 2020 elections as the vaccines neared approval about taking them because of who was President while the vaccines were being developed.

The politicization of COVID for a slew of reasons by BOTH parties is frankly disgusting, and likely to some extent has made the entire pandemic worse than it needed to be in this country.

To think that one party got it right and the other wrong based on one's ideological preferences, as some do, is just example #101 of why the political climate, which unfortunately is more about Caucus before Country now, is so messed up
 

Edd

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If one is also being honest, they will remember that many a politician on the left, as well as some in the Media, expressed their skepticism and resistance initially prior to the 2020 elections as the vaccines neared approval about taking them because of who was President while the vaccines were being developed.

The politicization of COVID for a slew of reasons by BOTH parties is frankly disgusting, and likely to some extent has made the entire pandemic worse than it needed to be in this country.

To think that one party got it right and the other wrong based on one's ideological preferences, as some do, is just example #101 of why the political climate, which unfortunately is more about Caucus before Country now, is so messed up
I was speaking specifically about right wing media and you did your false equivalency thing and pulled in politicians too and changed the topic a bit, but sure.
 

abc

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Always in search of a bogeyman stealing your rights, right wing media zeroed in on vaccinations, masks, whatevs.. Bad choice, unhelpful. That’s one single thing everyone should have agreed upon.
No, I don't agree.

I'm thankful there're people constantly "in search of bogeyman stealing your rights"! I may not agree with their chosen bogeyman. And I definitely disagree with their "zeroed in on vaccination and masks". But I appreciate there're opposing voices to any blanket restrictions. Government overreach is a constant bogeyman that needs to be guard against

I was speaking specifically about right wing media and you did your false equivalency thing and pulled in politicians too and changed the topic a bit, but sure.
What you call "false equivalency", I see it every bit as real.
 
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JimG.

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Right wing/left wing this sh*t don't fly.

We're willfully making a mess out of this country. Nobody is going to care about left/right when we're all speaking Chinese.

There I said it.
 

drjeff

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I was speaking specifically about right wing media and you did your false equivalency thing and pulled in politicians too and changed the topic a bit, but sure.
Until one can readily acknowledge that at times their own preferred ideological media sources are contributors to the problem we're in now with political division, then they're part of the problem rather than trying to push towards improvement...


Maybe the seemingly now inevitable mega reset that CNN is likely to go through in the next few weeks, will help bring about a pivot towards the needed media middle that is lacking now.
 

britme_brit09

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The doctor-patient relationship starts at birth and extends across one's life. When patients are honest with their doctors, better decisions can be made about their health. They expect the same honesty in return and, indeed, the Hippocratic Oath demands as much of physicians. Underscoring this important responsibility, throughout the Covid-19 pandemic, national polls have found that most Americans trust medical professionals to give them accurate information about the virus.But a vocal minority of doctors are undermining this relationship and taking advantage of the public’s trust by intentionally spreading Covid misinformation and disinformation. From making false claims about vaccines to offering to sign medically unnecessary mask exemptions in exchange for payment, these “disinformation doctors” are amplifying lies and often profiting from a cottage industry of social media posts, websites, live and virtual conferences and podcasts. doctor appointment text reminder curogram.com/blog/texting-patients-appointments
In the process, they are weaponizing their white coats and putting patients, the public and their profession at risk. Across the country, physicians have falsely claimed that Covid vaccines change people’s DNA, that the vaccines have been proved ineffective at preventing Covid and that the vaccine has killed more people than the disease itself. Yet these doctors are facing almost no consequences for what they’re doing. Data shows that nearly every state medical board — the state-sanctioned government agencies with the authority to license, investigate, discipline and regulate medical doctors — is failing to hold these doctors accountable.
 
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