joshua segal
Well-known member
I'm here every day. Black parka, black pants, no helmet, mustache, knit hat.
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Crotched Mtn. 2016-17
- Thread starter joshua segal
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becca m
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i was there also last night!!!! Bulletproof kept us on our toes!!!! Rocketfuel was just what was needed for some liquid courage!!!!
hammer
Active member
Will be there tomorrow trying to get my ski legs...
dlague
Active member
thebigo
Well-known member
Further to my earlier report, ufo skied great in the afternoon, tried one run down soltice, it was skiable but needs a few more inches to make it enjoyable, same story with frontier.
In total crotched was in much better shape today than cannon on wednesday.
Will be back out there tomorrow morning around 10, big guy in a blue north face skiing with my elderly father, if history is any indicator we will be in the bar around noon.
Does crotched have any long term plan to add water? Either pond expansion or another source? Have to assume they are still paying for the hsq but just curious if there have ever been discussions?
One more - have they ever seeded any bumps? The steep part of Jupiter's looks perfect for seeding.
In total crotched was in much better shape today than cannon on wednesday.
Will be back out there tomorrow morning around 10, big guy in a blue north face skiing with my elderly father, if history is any indicator we will be in the bar around noon.
Does crotched have any long term plan to add water? Either pond expansion or another source? Have to assume they are still paying for the hsq but just curious if there have ever been discussions?
One more - have they ever seeded any bumps? The steep part of Jupiter's looks perfect for seeding.
I don't know about "seeding" but they'll let bumps develop under the chair on Pluto's and the left half of UFO.
I'll be in a red / black jacket, black pants, orange helmet. I too will surely find the bar.
The solution is to designate Jupiter's Storm as a bump run and treat it exactly as Pat's Peak does with Hurricane. Blow it open and groom out an initial base and then leave it alone for the rest of the season. Flip the fan guns on and let people ski some bumps in. When they get icy, don't groom it. Just turn the guns on again and refresh it.
Pat's has shown over the years to be able to offer decent moguls most of the season on Hurricane. Sometimes they're icy, often irregular and lacking consistent lines, but very respectable overall for a small feeder type hill.
The fact that Crotched hasn't been able to do the same to at least offer something for advanced skiers to enjoy when the trees aren't skiing well is quite simply operational incompetence. All they need to do is model exactly what Pat's does. It would require a fraction of the effort and expense that Crotched puts into terrain parks.
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Pat's has shown over the years to be able to offer decent moguls most of the season on Hurricane. Sometimes they're icy, often irregular and lacking consistent lines, but very respectable overall for a small feeder type hill.
The fact that Crotched hasn't been able to do the same to at least offer something for advanced skiers to enjoy when the trees aren't skiing well is quite simply operational incompetence. All they need to do is model exactly what Pat's does. It would require a fraction of the effort and expense that Crotched puts into terrain parks.
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I forgot about that run. That would be enough to get me to go there for a night.
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joshua segal
Well-known member
Disclaimer: Please note that I live at Crotched Mountain and I hear a lot of good information. I teach skiing here, but none of my comments represent Crotched Mtn. management. My comments only are my own observations and opinions.
xwhaler asks, "When do they start blowing on Pluto's?"
A quick look at the snowmaking pond will show that in the short term, water is in short supply. The only runs of any substance that aren't open are Comet Drop, Big Dipper and Pluto's. So my guess is that as soon as water supplies rejuvenate themselves, Pluto's will be next.
thebigo said, "Further to my earlier report, ufo skied great in the afternoon, tried one run down solstice, it was skiable but needs a few more inches to make it enjoyable, same story with frontier."
I tried Solstice Glade Trail too and I thought it was awful; but Solstice Glade Glade wasn't great but I thought it was better.
thebigo said, "In total crotched was in much better shape today than cannon on wednesday."
No surprise here. Since Sunday, Crotched has made a lot of snow (they emptied an almost full pond) and they did some excellent grooming. I've heard people time-and-time again come to Crotched and say, I was at XXX yesterday and can't believe how much better your conditions are.
thebigo asks, "Does crotched have any long term plan to add water? Either pond expansion or another source? Have to assume they are still paying for the hsq but just curious if there have ever been discussions?"
It has been a subject of discussion. Clearly, the horrendous 2015-16 season didn't leave much money for anything but required maintenance. If new water supplies become a reality, I suspect we are talking at least 5-years down the road.
thebigo asks, "One more - have they ever seeded any bumps? The steep part of Jupiter's looks perfect for seeding."
This is my 10th season at CM and only once did they try seeding bumps. They were on skier's right going down Magnitude.
Bumps/moguls are an annual management decision. Last year, the snow was not deep enough and management felt the trough would break through to ground. As a result, they did not let moguls build up on UFO and the only moguls were under the Rocket on Pluto's.
Two years ago, they let all of the following bump up: Jupiter, UFO and under the Rocket on Pluto's
I'm guessing they will leave bumps on the left (west) side of UFO and under the Rocket on Pluto's, but I don't know that for sure.
xwhaler asks, "When do they start blowing on Pluto's?"
A quick look at the snowmaking pond will show that in the short term, water is in short supply. The only runs of any substance that aren't open are Comet Drop, Big Dipper and Pluto's. So my guess is that as soon as water supplies rejuvenate themselves, Pluto's will be next.
thebigo said, "Further to my earlier report, ufo skied great in the afternoon, tried one run down solstice, it was skiable but needs a few more inches to make it enjoyable, same story with frontier."
I tried Solstice Glade Trail too and I thought it was awful; but Solstice Glade Glade wasn't great but I thought it was better.
thebigo said, "In total crotched was in much better shape today than cannon on wednesday."
No surprise here. Since Sunday, Crotched has made a lot of snow (they emptied an almost full pond) and they did some excellent grooming. I've heard people time-and-time again come to Crotched and say, I was at XXX yesterday and can't believe how much better your conditions are.
thebigo asks, "Does crotched have any long term plan to add water? Either pond expansion or another source? Have to assume they are still paying for the hsq but just curious if there have ever been discussions?"
It has been a subject of discussion. Clearly, the horrendous 2015-16 season didn't leave much money for anything but required maintenance. If new water supplies become a reality, I suspect we are talking at least 5-years down the road.
thebigo asks, "One more - have they ever seeded any bumps? The steep part of Jupiter's looks perfect for seeding."
This is my 10th season at CM and only once did they try seeding bumps. They were on skier's right going down Magnitude.
Bumps/moguls are an annual management decision. Last year, the snow was not deep enough and management felt the trough would break through to ground. As a result, they did not let moguls build up on UFO and the only moguls were under the Rocket on Pluto's.
Two years ago, they let all of the following bump up: Jupiter, UFO and under the Rocket on Pluto's
I'm guessing they will leave bumps on the left (west) side of UFO and under the Rocket on Pluto's, but I don't know that for sure.
Joshua,
Due to your long term connection and respect with management at the mountain, I'd simply ask that you request that they look at Pat's operational plan with Hurricane and see if they'd apply a similar strategy to Jupiter's. Choose one trail to leave alone for the whole season. I think Jupiter's makes more sense than UFO due to a more expert pitch and UFO can be a pretty popular cruising type run of good pitch to mix things up from Pluto's and Meteor. Even during low snow years, Pat's pulls off moguls every year on Hurricane. Big Dipper would be a good half groomed / half moguled option for lower angle bumps. Would ruffle fewer feathers than UFO.
There are people who do not ski Crotched due to lack of moguls on a consistent basis. Probably lost season pass business due to no moguls. I doubt the same could be said for folks thinking they don't offer enough groomed terrain.
Due to your long term connection and respect with management at the mountain, I'd simply ask that you request that they look at Pat's operational plan with Hurricane and see if they'd apply a similar strategy to Jupiter's. Choose one trail to leave alone for the whole season. I think Jupiter's makes more sense than UFO due to a more expert pitch and UFO can be a pretty popular cruising type run of good pitch to mix things up from Pluto's and Meteor. Even during low snow years, Pat's pulls off moguls every year on Hurricane. Big Dipper would be a good half groomed / half moguled option for lower angle bumps. Would ruffle fewer feathers than UFO.
There are people who do not ski Crotched due to lack of moguls on a consistent basis. Probably lost season pass business due to no moguls. I doubt the same could be said for folks thinking they don't offer enough groomed terrain.
joshua segal
Well-known member
For better or worse, CM has limited terrain and has to make prudent decisions on how to use what they got. While CM has 25 trails, when it is 100% open, it only takes 10 runs to ski all 25 trails. Management has discussed the issue of moguls extensively.
Jupiter is the only true steep at the mountain and after letting it mogul one season, they made a decision not to do so since.
Big Dipper is heavily used for race training.
UFO is flanked by Pluto's and Velocity which are both excellent intermediate cruisers, so I have to agree with management that UFO is the right selection for their mogul run.
CM no longer sells a Crotched-only season pass but a variety of 7-mountain packages. I suspect we lost more season pass business over that than from lack of bumps.
BTW, the Solstice Glade trail is ungroomed and always moguls up nicely - and, of course, the glades become natural mogul fields.
UFO would be fine. I do ski there 10-12 times a year and can tell you that Solstice doesn't offer what most people who like moguls are looking for. It also lacks snowmaking, which is necessary in Southern NH on a dedicated bump run as mother nature doesn't refresh things consistently enough on her own.
The limited terrain argument doesn't really hold water. Plenty of smaller areas offer moguls consistently and people seek them out: Pat's, Whaleback, would be examples locally. I have little doubt Crotched loses season pass and day ticket business to those mountains because people know they are likely to find bumps. Ski Sundown in CT has grown their business considerably with their commitment to bumps. That has been discussed for years on this forum.
What separates Crotched from these examples is that overall they offer a much more compelling product. Better cruising terrain, parks and lifts. The decision for bump skiers to switch from Pat's or Whaleback to Crotched would be pretty simple if they made that product commitment. The commitment needs to be sustained though. You can't just haphazardly let UFO bump for one season and say, "We tried." It needs to be a year after year thing where a reputation gets built and bump skiers start talking about it on social media and with their skiing friends.
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The limited terrain argument doesn't really hold water. Plenty of smaller areas offer moguls consistently and people seek them out: Pat's, Whaleback, would be examples locally. I have little doubt Crotched loses season pass and day ticket business to those mountains because people know they are likely to find bumps. Ski Sundown in CT has grown their business considerably with their commitment to bumps. That has been discussed for years on this forum.
What separates Crotched from these examples is that overall they offer a much more compelling product. Better cruising terrain, parks and lifts. The decision for bump skiers to switch from Pat's or Whaleback to Crotched would be pretty simple if they made that product commitment. The commitment needs to be sustained though. You can't just haphazardly let UFO bump for one season and say, "We tried." It needs to be a year after year thing where a reputation gets built and bump skiers start talking about it on social media and with their skiing friends.
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joshua segal
Well-known member
I don't disagree with you, but I am not in charge.
BTW: Last year was the only year in the last 5 that UFO was not allowed to bump up - but the choice was dictated by the worst season since 1981 and I don't think it is fair to judge mountain policy based on last season.
Tin
Active member
2012-2013 and 2013-2014 UFO was used for race training most of the year and the far left 20' was finally allowed to "bump up"in late February/early March. Essentially for the last month of the season. That is not a "bump run". 2012-2013 they allowed skier's right of Magnitude for bumps which was great for low-angle zipping. Valentine's Day 2013 it was about 50* and we just lapped it for hours until we were exhausted. One of my better "spring bump" days.
The two years we had Peak's Passes we only skied Crotched because Wildcat was too far and we wouldn't bother with Mt. Snow. We had college then drifter passes. Crotched was a great home mountain from Providence. Last year we specifically did not buy Crotched passes because after 8-10 trips, unless they got snow and your hand cleared woods were on, there was little incentive to ski it due to a lack of interesting/more challenging terrain. If they had one consistent bump run I think we would have bought them last year.
Being able to lap one bump run for myself and my GF truly is the difference in spending the money and driving or not going skiing. If there is not fresh snow, woods, or moguls we generally don't ski. The first winter we had passes there we were spoiled in that it was a special year for southern NE, the following year was not quite as special and it could get boring lapping the mountain after a few runs. It's not just Whale or Pat's but must small mountains (WaWa, Sundown, Jiminy, Catamount, etc.) have a bumped up run or two to keep things interesting. I believe Crotched is one of the few that does not.
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Savemeasammy
New member
I live 20 minutes from Crotched and 55 minutes from Whaleback. I choose to ski (and coach) at Whaleback. I just got back into skiing 5 seasons ago after a 20 year absence. My first 2 seasons back were as a passholder at Pats. Hurricane is a good bump run, and I'm glad to know that Pats is committed to keeping it as a bump run even during a low-tide year like this past one. Unfortunately Pats doesn't offer much variety in the area of off-trail skiing, so it gets a bit old after a while. We played free-agent for a year, and then last year I got the opportunity to coach at Whaleback. Although last year sucked, I know that Whaleback is also committed to mogul skiing, and they have a respectable amount of off-trail skiing as well.
Crotched has never been a season-pass consideration for us because of it's lack of mogul skiing. In fact, I've only skied there 2 or 3 times. It does have great off-trail stuff, so it's really a shame that they don't have bumps because it would otherwise be a sensible option for us.
As far as which run would be good for bumps - it really needs to be something that is fairly long. Just looking at google earth, UFO on it's own looks to be a bit short. Continuing down Equinox would probably make it that much better. IIRC, Equinox is a bit flatter (but I could be wrong here), and it would give people the opportunity to enter/exit part way via Pluto's. (Also, I'm not sure if this route runs straight down the fall-line or not, but IMO that is important for bumps).
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Crotched has never been a season-pass consideration for us because of it's lack of mogul skiing. In fact, I've only skied there 2 or 3 times. It does have great off-trail stuff, so it's really a shame that they don't have bumps because it would otherwise be a sensible option for us.
As far as which run would be good for bumps - it really needs to be something that is fairly long. Just looking at google earth, UFO on it's own looks to be a bit short. Continuing down Equinox would probably make it that much better. IIRC, Equinox is a bit flatter (but I could be wrong here), and it would give people the opportunity to enter/exit part way via Pluto's. (Also, I'm not sure if this route runs straight down the fall-line or not, but IMO that is important for bumps).
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joshua segal
Well-known member
Well, I do know the GM reads Alpine Zone, so perhaps your comments will be heard!
Jully
Active member
Love it when GM's read alpine zone and the industry has a presence here.
Echoing others comments, I would definitely be drawn to Crotched for night skiing if it had a bump run. I absolutely understand the small mountain worries about losing a run to bumps as bump skiers are a minority (sadly).
Pat's has more unique ways down than Crotched does IIRC. However, even half of a sizeable trail or two would be enough for me since I know terrain is limited. All Wachusett has for bumps is the half the trail at the top of 10th mountain (I think) and that was certainly not enough. Crotched has more sustained pitch than WaWa though so if they were properly seeded, it would be comparable to Hurricane if done correctly. Throw in the HSQ and trees and you have a great mid sized mountain product there.
dlague
Active member
This was a very interesting dialog. Crotched was a once per year deal for us. When we were there last year it was very very firm but that was the way the season was. However, the bumps that formed or were made under the Rocket lift in years prior and even before that lift I have enjoyed. Then again I like to mix up my day. I do not focus on bumps because my knees only tolerate so much. I did like lapping Rocket with fast runs. I would like to see more snowmaking capacity and I do like Crotched over Pats because of Rocket and it is not as crowded. However, that being said Crotched, Pats, Whale back are places where I am good with for a couple hours then it gets repetitive. Even Ragged gets like that in low snow years.
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