Death at Cannon

[Los]

I was sort of lumping those 2 together as one "spot". But you are right, if you differentiate between the two the bottom of Skylight is even worse. I also agree that it used to be much worse.

As you point out, people (like you) who know it extremely well can get away with skiing it fast. And even when knowing it well it can be hairy. I worry about the people who don't know what to expect there and have no reason to expect greatly increased risk. I'd like to see the mountain put a little more effort into prevention there. Maybe some of the things DHS suggested.

If there have been that many incidents, its seems unbelievable that they haven't done anything to identify it as a hazard area.

I've never thought of it as being dangerous, but that's probably because I'm not a fast skier. I'm going to be even slower from now on... Good advice by the way on trying to think ahead and be aware of where you're going to fall in case you catch an edge...

 

[from_the_NEK]

Side View of problem area:

Netting at the bottom of both of those trails probably wouldn't be a terrible idea. That is a lot of steep slope feeding straight into the trees if you can't complete the turn.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Actually,Ravine is very mellow going into that corner.Your GE pic doesnt really show it but Skylite is a lot steeper heading into the traverse.

 

[cdskier]

Netting at the bottom of both of those trails probably wouldn't be a terrible idea. That is a lot of steep slope feeding straight into the trees if you can't complete the turn.

Never skied there but based on the trailmap that corner is part of a blue? Netting there does sound like potentially a good idea in that case. Always terrible to hear of sad news like this.

 

[catskills]

Anyone skiing those trails may want to know how to self arrest after taking a fall. Note I have never skied that trail.

The important part is be prepared by putting the ski pole straps on your wrists when skiing in terrain where self arrest may be needed to avoid injury or death. The next part is know how to execute a self arrest.

Here is one of the better descriptions on how to self arrest documented by retired Jackson Hole guide Bob Peters
http://www.epicski.com/a/self-arrest-techniques

 

[SIKSKIER]

Even this doesnt show it good.Ravine in that last section is only an intermediate trail whereas Skylite is definately an expert run.You can see how much they widened that corner.The inside part where the green shows is where about where the old trail used to stop.The problem is that has a fall away falline to skiers left.

 

[Cannonball]

Anyone skiing those trails should know how to self arrest after taking a fall. The important part is be prepared by putting the ski pole straps on your wrists when skiing in terrain where self arrest may be needed to avoid injury or death. The next part is know how to execute a self arrest.

Here is one of the better descriptions on how to self arrest documented by retired Jackson Hole guide Bob Peters
http://www.epicski.com/a/self-arrest-techniques

Be safe.

Your comment and that link are completely irrelevant to the trails and conditions in question. If you are in crash situation at these locations you would have less than 1sec to react. These are not big line, self arrest situations.

 

[NHSkier13]

I heard about this. Cannon never seemed like a dangerous place to me, that said, I don't do lots of glades (depends on the steepness and room to turn), but I've heard of plenty of deaths from there. Also, I really like that upper ravine trail. I've done it several times, and haven't had much trouble on it unless it was an icy day... however I almost killed myself this season at loon just by taking a sharp right on flying fox a bit too fast, so I know how those situations can play out - trail might seem easy but this kind of stuff can happen pretty much anywhere.

iirc he suffered from head trauma?

Honestly, I wonder what his family may be thinking of now. Respects.

 

[deadheadskier]

Anyone skiing those trails should know how to self arrest after taking a fall. The important part is be prepared by putting the ski pole straps on your wrists when skiing in terrain where self arrest may be needed to avoid injury or death. The next part is know how to execute a self arrest.

Here is one of the better descriptions on how to self arrest documented by retired Jackson Hole guide Bob Peters
http://www.epicski.com/a/self-arrest-techniques

Be safe.

I consider myself pretty good at "falling." It's not always possible to self arrest. Especially if you catch an edge and fulcrum down hard head first. What the guy in your link is demonstrating is how to use your poll to slow yourself down while in a fairly benign slide down a steep slope. It's a worthwhile skill to know, but only applicable in that one kind of fall.

We don't know what happened with the deceased. Sounds like he went head first into the woods.

Netting in that location might have been the only thing that could have saved him. That and/or fast response from patrol.

 

[bootladder]

I can attest that self arrest was not possible for my crash.

My fall went like this:

While trying to catch up with my group who took off after I took a picture of them I was going at a good clip, took the turn tight on the right (the steepest part of that particular turn).

Quite icy on the inside right and heavy snow back towards the middle of the trail. As I made the turn I thought "Gee, I hope I don't get hung up on the transition between the ice and the snow". I did. It tripped me up.

I fell in a safe spot in the middle of the trail and thought I would be OK. However my momentum carried me up the bank on the left side of the bottom of the turn and over the top of the bank where it drops steeply down into the woods.

I saw the trees coming at me and thought "No, not like this. Not like Sony Bono and that Kennedy guy". Just before impact I think I turned my head and sacrificed my shoulder. I was wearing helmet, but I don't think that would have kept my egg from cracking. I was "lucky"

This all happened in only a few seconds. The last second or so before impact looped in my head that night for hours.

I fully understand the dangers of skiing, but think a safety net may be worthy of that particular turn.

 

[Cannonball]

^ Impossible to self-arrest in that situation.

My wife had a similar one at this same location (or actually the bottom of Skylight). On a snowboard she made the hard, fast turn coming of Skylight onto the traverse. Ice at the bottom of the turn had her skidding slightly towards the outside of the turn. Meanwhile, a skier coming off Ravine blasted past her at high speed. There was no fault there, but she was surprised enough that it made her react slightly and catch her back edge. She launched into the woods off the trail. Because the woods drop away from the edge of the trail, she hit the trees about 3-5 feet off the ground. Fortunately she a) hit only small trees, and b) managed to twist herself around in the air enough to avoid going head first. She broke her thumb and went pretty far into the woods off the trail, and down out of sight. She was at the back of our pack and nobody saw it happen. We waited for her for ~15 min wondering if she had accidentally gone another way. She eventually extracted herself and caught up with us. If she hadn't we might have spent hours looking for her even though we were essentially all skiing together. She very well could have been the next news story. It's a fine line.

Some netting might save people. At a minimum it would make it obvious if someone had crashed through it.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Wow. So two people in our rather small AZ community have had bad crashes that could very easily have resulted in deaths at this very specific area on Cannon. It makes me wonder how many other people have gone off here and escaped mostly unscathed? Many of these crashes probably don't get reported to Patrol.
It really does seem like a layer of race netting could very easily be set up on that stretch.

 

[skiberg]

Hindsight is always 20/20. Skiing is an inherently dangerous activity. You can fall anywhere and die, like Turnpike or Zoomer in the past.

There are nasty corners on every mountain. Skiers need to exercise care. We all ski, at times, in a manner in which we probably could be badly hurt. The responsibility mostly is on us individually to be safe.

This is why its nearly impossible to sue a ski are in the US.

You can hook an edge and dive into the woods on a relatively benign portion of any trail. The mountain cant be expected to net the whole hill.

The corner is not that bad. Its plenty wide. It was probably the conditions and ice that caused the fall. He probably dipped his shoulder, lost the downhill edge and slid into the woods.

Truly tragic, but I just don't think the mountain bears much responsibility.

With that being said Cannon does have a tendency to open trails under very precarious and border line conditions. However, this fall was at the very end of the day, not in the AM. It had softened up quite a bit.

Very sad and sobering. We need to excercise care and think about this when we are out there.

I cant tell you how many times I have absolutely barrelled down Ravine, railing the corners and bombing past people.

I have had friends do the exact same thing, as this poor kid on three occasions on Ravine and Cannon trails. Luckily all were basically ok.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

Agree with Freeski - you need to think proactively about falling on expert terrain.

 

[Highway Star]

And people even begin to question why I ski virtually non-releasable bindings and keep race quality tunes on several pairs of skis. RIP.

 

[yeggous]

And people even begin to question why I ski virtually non-releasable bindings and keep race quality tunes on several pairs of skis. RIP.

Because you are awesome?

 

[from_the_NEK]

And people even begin to question why I ski virtually non-releasable bindings and keep race quality tunes on several pairs of skis. RIP.

 

[Funky_Catskills]

And people even begin to question why I ski virtually non-releasable bindings and keep race quality tunes on several pairs of skis. RIP.

Smart man...
Thats actually a good thing about a snowboard in that situation. May not have the edge but it won't come off...
so it gives you a fighting chance.. Get the deck downhill to take whatever is comng...

 

[DoublePlanker]

Agree with Freeski - you need to think proactively about falling on expert terrain.

Ravine is intermediate.

 

[Bumpsis]

Because you are awesome?

:grin::grin::grin: