Did Mount Snow lose the Dew Tour?

[millerm277]

If the comments about this over on K-zone today are indicative of things to come, there's going to be some UNHAPPY K regulars, especially when it comes to snowmaking useage and then limited facility access/traffic flow issues ovr at Bear in the week or so leading upto the Dew Tour and the few days after.

I personally have no issue with the fact that Killington's having an event, it's good for business. The issue is primarily the timing. Historically, there is usually a major late December/January thaw, that requires all of the snowmaking capacity to recover from and get all the terrain open for MLK/February. That's not going to be available this year, and if the snowmaking budget isn't increased a lot, it means trails like Devil's Fiddle won't see snowmaking because of this event.

 

[skiadikt]

actually in terms of terrain, the fiddle might be a good choice for events. unfortunately not good for spectators from the base area though i wouldn't complain if the fiddle was the beneficiary of all that snowmaking.

and yeah geoff's points abut the snowmaking are well taken. it's gonna take a lot of still early season resources to pull this off. last year we actually had great snowmaking weather. also in the past these guys haven't shown the ability to get a much smaller half pipe together in a timely fashion.

 

[SkiDork]

also in the past these guys haven't shown the ability to get a much smaller half pipe together in a timely fashion.

Most likely they'll get help from the folks who run the Dew event building the pipe. But my question is: Does the TV coverage generate any revenue for POWDR?

 

[drjeff]

With that date, it's pretty obvious why Mount Snow walked away. MLK weekend generates a lot of revenue and it would be bad business to have a thaw and need to devote a big chunk of your scarse water supply to an event.

.

Mount Snow had their 1st Dew Tour event that essential weekend (the weekend after MLK) 2 years ago - last year it went to the 2nd weekend in Feb since they had the Dew Tour finals there, not one of the 2 lead up events. The fan guns were running the during the vast majority of snowmaking windows in the competition venue sites from basically Thanksgiving through MLK weekend.

The main reason, per the admin folks at Mount Snow that they're not having it this year, is the folks at The Dew Tour insisted that the 1/2 pipe be a 22 footer for the event (standard olympic size), and pipe at Mount Snow currently can't be made bigger than 18 feet without a substantial amount of tree removal and land moving - both of which Mount Snow wasn't going to be able to get the permits to be able to do in time. Knowing the events guy at Mount Snow, if there was any way that they could have pulled off a 22 footer, the Dew Tour would have been back at Mount Snow.

 

[drjeff]

Most likely they'll get help from the folks who run the Dew event building the pipe. But my question is: Does the TV coverage generate any revenue for POWDR?

Yup, the Dew Tour folks, or in the case of the 1/2 pipe and slopestyle trail building, the folks from Snow Park Technologies, will be doing the vast majority of the construction. Basically, and I'm sure that conversations between the folks at Snow Park Technologies and Mountain Ops at K have started already, they'll tell K, that weather permitting, they'd like to see X amount of snow for the 1/2 pipe and X amount of snow in certain rough places on the slopestyle course in place before the folks at Snow Park Technologies show up about a week before the comp with their Bombardier's to transform the piles of snow into some HUGE features.

TV coverage wise, you can expect to hear "Killington, Vermont" and see Killington banners displayed over and over and over again on both what is usually the LIVE national TV broadcast on NBC on late saturday afternoon, early Saturday evening and then in the taped segements that have aired on ESPN/MTV and USA in years past.

 

[mtsnowfish]

So I just wanted to comment on here to give you guys some of my thoughts.

Since the Olympics jumped the pipe size up to 22' it has created a ripple effect amongst other competitions including the XGames, Dew Tour, and Grand Prix. This essentially is brought about by the demand of the athletes that compete at this level - essentially about 30-40 people.

Mount Snow did have a two year contract and also an option for a third. Alli broke that contract by moving to Killington.

There are really two points to this:
1) To build a 22' pipe at the current location at Carinthia would be labor intensive and require major excavation, a good amount of $$, and permits. For those of you who have been following Mount Snow's water quest know that the state of VT and the permit process is like pulling all your teeth at once. Considering we already have major projects of West Lake, and two new lifts on the docket for next summer a major construction of a pipe just wasn't in the cards.


2) 18' pipes are big enough for the general public! While the pipe event in the Olympics and on TV might be the big bill in reality it is a dying sport. At Carinthia where we have 8 parks in the middle of winter you'll find thousands of guests in all the parks and a very small handful in the 18' superpipe. More people have fun in our mini pipe which has 8'-10' walls. It would be silly for us to build a 22' pipe that would be open for the general public.

Carinthia will continue to be a top level terrain park across the east and in our opinion still the best with the evolution concept still in tact. You can ride/ski Grommet which has extremely small features all the way up to Inferno which has the XL features you've seen in the Dew Tour that will maintain that size.

I'm more upset because of the fun we had putting the event on. The Dew Tour contends it needs to have 22' pipes in it's competition but one thing I continue to ask myself is why is Breckenridge still involved if it is building an 18' wall pipe for stop #1.

It was a lot of work to nail the event in 2008 when we beat out our friends to the north to host it initially. Do we hold any grudges against K-ton for hosting the event. Absolutely not. It fell in there laps and they were smart to take it on and the exposure that comes with it. Did the Dew Tour make the mountain any loot? Ehh you could argue that but it did bring TV coverage and live TV (as well as all the Youtube and Hulu vids that come later) which in exposure is millions....

The tour will absolutely take over whatever base area they decide to use and I'd imagine that to be Bear. The access road will make for some great parties that Alli and sponsors will throw.

For anyone who needs any Dew Tour gear visit Twice Blessed on Route 100 as you come into Mount Snow land. I was a large and my wife was a medium. Good stuff, hoodies, backpacks, and caps.

That weekend is actually my birthday so I think I'll be in Maine visiting friends at Sunday River and enjoying a Rum and COKE.

Good Luck Killington.

 

[bigbog]

Am surprised, with the amount of promoters, they haven't merged the competition with American Gladiators = a whole new approach..

 

[Glenn]

You guys did what you had to do ("Dew"?) Greg. With all that's going on, it didn't make sense to go through the effort to dig out a bigger Super Pipe...for just one event.

Again, the Dew Tour was fun. But I am more excited about the lift improvements and expanded snow making. You guys are making a lot of good progress there. I'm reading about it weekly in the DVN.(Saw Dave and Laurie's pic in there last week) Keep up the great work.

 

[bvibert]

So I just wanted to comment on here to give you guys some of my thoughts.

...

That weekend is actually my birthday so I think I'll be in Maine visiting friends at Sunday River and enjoying a Rum and COKE.

Thanks for your insight.

Have a good birthday and enjoy the Rum and Coke!

 

[drjeff]

=mtsnowfish;547692]

I'm more upset because of the fun we had putting the event on. The Dew Tour contends it needs to have 22' pipes in it's competition but one thing I continue to ask myself is why is Breckenridge still involved if it is building an 18' wall pipe for stop #1.

My guess is the more liberal *cough*smoking*cough* laws might have factored into the Breck thing just a bit Now if it was the summer Dew Tour instead of the winter Dew Tour, well then Vermont's generally more liberal nudity laws would likely have been a help! :lol:

BTW, thanks for the detailed explanations on many sites during the last day Greg!

 

[deadheadskier]

Calling it now.

If the snowmaking required to pull this off over on Bear detracts from 'glacier building' on Superstar; things are going to get even more ugly than normal for Killington on skiing message boards this winter.

 

[o3jeff]

I would like to hear Highwaystars view on this...

 

[RootDKJ]

I would like to hear Highwaystars view on this...

Slow day at work?

 

[skiadikt]

i am curious if the pipe will be knocked down to 18" after the event and whether the terrain features will remain.

 

[drjeff]

Calling it now.

If the snowmaking required to pull this off over on Bear detracts from 'glacier building' on Superstar; things are going to get even more ugly than normal for Killington on skiing message boards this winter.

Yup. I wouldn't be a water issue for K, but a $$ issue, since it really takes alot of gun/compressor time to make the MASSIVE amounts of snow that they need for the competition venues. I haven't checked, but I'd bet that if you looked at the hour meters on the fan guns at Mount Snow, that the ones with the most hours on them would be the 12-15 tower mounted fan guns on Inferno (the trail that they had the slopestyle course on the last 2 years)

The point that Mountsnowfish brought up about the resources vs. utilization of a 22 foot pipe I do think is quite valid, and frankly have made posts about in AZ over the last few years on this topic. Is it worthwhile in this day and age, where having a GOOD park seems to be a more important thing than having a superpipe?? And secondly on a Vermont superpipe question, given that there's not too many folks who can actually utilize a superpipe, does Southern and Central VT really need 4 superpipes? (Mount Snow, Stratton, Okemo and Killington)

 

[neil]

Calling it now.

If the snowmaking required to pull this off over on Bear detracts from 'glacier building' on Superstar; things are going to get even more ugly than normal for Killington on skiing message boards this winter.

I can't wait. It's good stoke.

 

[Rogman]

Cumming has money, he's chosen to keep it in his pocket, and/or use it to buy Copper this year. Perhaps this event will convince him to loosen the purse strings a bit so his area doesn't end up looking like a chump.

Killington has plenty of water, and plenty of compressor capacity. They've made a lot of improvements over the last few years to the snow making infrastructure: they can produce a lot of snow when they need to. Fear of a Whistler/Olympic type meltdown will force them to put deeper cover early on all over the mountain, and have them stock piling snow from mid-December on. You don't sign on for an event like this with the intent to nickel and dime the rest of the resort to make up for the expense. That would be the ultimate stupidity.

Honestly, the Dew tour isn't really a big draw for me, but since it's in my own back yard, I'll be there. Chaos and crowds? Yeah, but its only a few days; should be a blast.

 

[Newpylong]

Best of luck to Killington honestly. The tour requires an a$$load of snowmaking but should bring good crowds and hopefully revenue.

Can see why Mount Snow and the Tour parted ways, the money is far better spent on the current projects in the pipeline for the mountain.

 

[RootDKJ]

You don't sign on for an event like this with the intent to nickel and dime the rest of the resort to make up for the expense. That would be the ultimate stupidity.

Ummmm, this is still Powdr's Killington we're talking about right?

 

[millerm277]

Ummmm, this is still Powdr's Killington we're talking about right?

Hence the complaints/hesitant reactions instead of praise.