Electric Cars/Trucks and winter weather testing with results. What do you think? Who has taken one in Freezing cold long distance to a Ski mountain?

[1dog]

Never heard of this site but seems to be reasonable: https://www.realclearscience.com/bl..._evs_handle_americas_arctic_blast_872663.html

 

[MidnightJester]

Never heard of this site but seems to be reasonable: https://www.realclearscience.com/bl..._evs_handle_americas_arctic_blast_872663.html

Its a mostly accurate article but a little too harsh on ICE-(Internal Combustion Engines) in cold weather losses. It misses pushing the additional pluses that gas cars bring in safety and lack of convenience of EV's are huge in winter. We have become a Environment exploring society and a disconnected nuclear family that drives way more then 300 miles on a lot of trips.

As to infrastructure upgrades for EV's. I have seen near me that multiple Target stores have installed TESLA charging locations over the last 6 months in their parking lots. Maybe 12-18 Charging stations in a group in the farther corners of their lots.

As to the privately owned Fast/Quick charging locations and in the wild charging locations anyone any have real world amounts you are paying per Kilowatt?? I read a few comments and a article in the past that some locations charge at least 2X to 3X local electric rates compared to home fast charging. If you are in a Fast Charging membership please explain the costs?

EV charging locations will become the new ATM's that have all different costs and fees. There should be a before cost listed and after a recite and results after each charging time. How many Kilowatts charged? How much you just spent total? and what the per Kilowatt cost was? I can't imagine Gas pumps with no prices listed working out if that is what we had with Gas vehicles in society.

 

[cdskier]

Its a mostly accurate article but a little too harsh on ICE-(Internal Combustion Engines) in cold weather losses.

Yea...the efficiency loss they mention for ICE engines in the winter seemed excessive. I lose a few MPG in the winter, but I attribute that more to the winter tires that I switch to rather than the cold impacting engine efficiency.

 

[kbroderick]

Yea...the efficiency loss they mention for ICE engines in the winter seemed excessive. I lose a few MPG in the winter, but I attribute that more to the winter tires that I switch to rather than the cold impacting engine efficiency.

I'm not surprised when I see a tank at 12 MPG in the winter, versus averaging around 16 in the summer. Winter tires are probably a 1-MPG-ish hit, but the bigger factors are letting the truck idle to warm up and the transmission and differential fluids barely getting up to temp. With that said, my normal driving patterns would work really well for an EV (lots of short drives near home); when I have a tank that's mostly longer drives (ie over 30 minutes), my mileage ends up closer to 15, although probably under it.

And yes, I realize that it's generally considered unnecessary to warm up a modern vehicle before driving, but (a) I have too damn many short drives to keep the battery charged otherwise and (b) I've got an F-150 with a propensity to not latch doors unless they get some heat.

 

[MidnightJester]

So The internal combustion engine from what I understand once up and running and hot works better with colder air. And to loss of MPG on my truck it is lucky if it is 10% going from 20mpg to 18mpg. The real loss is due to Elevation gains and elevation losses with braking. The more open throttle to compensate for loss of speed on hills is tremendous and to restart from bottom of hills with braking is the draw I see on trips. Going uphill with throttle probably drops MPG by 30-40% on mpg. Electric cars though fare even worse accelerating uphill I believe due to the lack of a transmission. The newer generation EV's will include some type of transmission to compensate for it eventually.

The EV's as technical and advanced as they are are much easier drivetrains then more recent Gas cars. Harder to fix but In reality most EV's have minimal or almost zero connecting drivetrain. They lack a normal drive shaft, no transmission, no torque converter, few U-Joints. A few might have hints of these parts but it is motor direct to wheels or wheel axel mostly.

 

[Smellytele]

Is the gas formula different in the winter as well?

 

[Dickc]

Is the gas formula different in the winter as well?

Its kind of a long article, but it explains the difference between summer blends and winter blends pretty well.

The Vapor Rub: Summer versus Winter Gasoline Explained

Starting in 1989 before the 1990 Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Agency began restricting the volatility of retail gasoline sold in the summer. Here's why.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[MidnightJester]

A brother and sister say they had to stop 6 times in one day to charge their rented Tesla in cold weather after the battery drained quickly

Xaviar and Alice Steavenson said they paid up to $30 each time they needed to recharge their car on their road trip from Orlando to Wichita.

ca.style.yahoo.com

 

[skef]

 

[MidnightJester]

That's a really good video. A few things to add to the comparison of ICE cars and EV cars and picked up on a few things. Apparently charging the EV's mid drive is the major help to having a warmer battery and charging time. Not sure if driving in the cold with longer distances up mountains you can risk not charging the last 15-20% of battery to save time. I not sure but I believe he has the largest battery pack they have in his EV

1-He ran his test in optimum traffic conditions with very little braking I am thinking. Not that you cant do that in a Gas car but the lack of re-accelerating the tesla to speed is more of a draw then in Gas vehicles with a transmission. Slow and Stop and go in hilly snowy traffic the differences would be more severe.
2-The Tesla charging stations have a lower per Kilowatt cost then normal in their memberships or with a purchase of a Tesla. They are only now allowing non-Tesla's to charge there not sure of the costs if its the same.
3-If I applied his driving and charging habits into a one was safer drive to Mid-Northern Vermont from NY I would be stopping 3 or 4 times at 30 minutes to 45 minutes a stop. 2 or 3 times if I was to push its limits in the cold. For me losing more then a hour up to two hours with charging times would throw driving and making it to mountains in time almost impossible on day trips.
4-Losing anytime in worsening and deteriorating weather while charging a EV risks becoming a trip time multiplier or trip breaker if connecting time matters.
5-Because his trip was more of a cross country trip and not a more focused destination I don't believe he lost much time with getting to and back from a Tesla charging location. He just stopped at any one just about anywhere without it mattering.
6-He mentions never having a issue with finding a charging location. He did this video in the middle of the pandemic with lockdowns possible even it seems.

In EV's Favor If you nap of sleep while at the super charger I see it as a Bonus in trip time regardless and safety/awareness if arrival time is not a prime factor.

Found this.
Another factor to note is that Superchargers occasionally charge idle fees. If a station is more than 50% full, Tesla will tack on an additional cost for every minute your car stays plugged in after it’s fully charged. According to Tesla, that fee is 50 cents per minute at 50% capacity and $1 per minute at 100%.

 

[skiur]

These spammers are getting pretty good!

 

[MidnightJester]

If this is the future basis for EV cars and suvs with cost to ICE cars it will put a already unmentioned in the forefront. I have heard a few times that EV's possibly save you money just that it takes years or more down the road till it would equal out then save you money. This rewrites that storybook ending a little

Fuel Costs of Electric Vehicles Overtake Gas-Powered Cars: Study

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[John9]

EVs are a misguided idea. The mining of the materials to make the batteries cause more environmental harm than any benefit from the car itself.

The electric grid cannot support any large scale move towards EVs, CA cannot support the present demand.

Why would anyone want the hassle of owning one? Cold weather being only one of the issues.

 

[bigbob]

Is the gas formula different in the winter as well?

Yes, and I notice a drop in milage on winter blend fuel. Is it still necessary since 90%+ of cars now have fuel injection?

 

[x10003q]

Yes, and I notice a drop in milage on winter blend fuel. Is it still necessary since 90%+ of cars now have fuel injection?

In addition to the winter blend fuel, cars do not warm up enough on short trips which can decrease mileage by as much as 10-15%. Also, winter air is denser and can reduce mpg by about 1-2% at highway speeds.

 

[1dog]

In addition to the winter blend fuel, cars do not warm up enough on short trips which can decrease mileage by as much as 10-15%. Also, winter air is denser and can reduce mpg by about 1-2% at highway speeds.

That’s spot-on.
Take on of 4 different vehicles north each week.
Every one gets reduced mpg by 1-2 mpg in weather under 35 or so degrees.

My go-to Irving on I-89 was up by $.20-$.30 from the $2.99 a couple weeks ago.

 

[Edd]

I re-read recent articles about these 2030 and 2035 goals for EVs sold. I didn’t realize that plug-in hybrids are part of the equation. That adds a touch of sanity to otherwise completely unrealistic targets.

If we really were to head in that direction I’d expect plug-in hybrids to be in huge demand compared to EVs, and will even be more expensive as well.

 

[1dog]

Getting rid of our plug-in hybrid - like it, but even with $6800 taxpayer rebate - thank you - its too expensive to own.
Going for a smaller AWD SUV with 30-35 MPG range - what we get with this one on highway ( electric runs under 35-40 MPH only).
Approx. half the price - same manufacturer.

Same old story - if not for our ( taxpayer) subsidies, much of these would not be financially feasible, or sustainable.

Never heard of these guys but prescient to topic:

 

[Edd]

Getting rid of our plug-in hybrid - like it, but even with $6800 taxpayer rebate - thank you - its too expensive to own.
Going for a smaller AWD SUV with 30-35 MPG range - what we get with this one on highway ( electric runs under 35-40 MPH only).
Approx. half the price - same manufacturer.

Same old story - if not for our ( taxpayer) subsidies, much of these would not be financially feasible, or sustainable.

Never heard of these guys but prescient to topic:

Which model is this you're getting rid of? It's the payments that're too expensive? We love our RAV4 Hybrid; not a plug-in though.

 

[RichT]

My opinion is, Hybrid is good, full EV is not ...............full EV might be alright just for the city, but not sure how you will be able to charge all those cars on city streets.