Electric Cars/Trucks and winter weather testing with results. What do you think? Who has taken one in Freezing cold long distance to a Ski mountain?

[KustyTheKlown]

This past summer we went to France for a week. We stayed in Paris, but spent 2 nights in Strasbourg. When my wife rented a car, she did it online thru a 3rd party (Expedia or something) and rented a "class" of car, thinking we would get a BMW or Audi, maybe. We got a Tesla. At first, we were pretty excited. Then, the realization of needing to charge the car and planning our stops around charging set in. Not something we even considered when we decided to do the side trip to Strasbourg. The trip is roughly 300 miles. We couldn't make it on a single charge. We didn't have a good map of where the chargers were, outside of the Tesla superchargers. Not good cell phone reception in the French countryside to find charging stations.

There are many more details to the story, but the gist of it is we wasted 5-6 hours of that part of the trip just dealing with charging related issues. That was really the last thing we wanted to deal with or spend time on, especially on vacation in a foreign country. I had heard Europe was all-in on EVs, but I was expecting many more charging stations. Maybe it was where in France we were driving just didn't have the infrastructure for it. I don't know. But never again will I get an EV for a drive of any serious length.

It was a pretty sweet ride though.......

we went to tillamook cheese factory mainly because there was a supercharger on site. we didn't need to visit a massive commercial grocery store cheese facility. we would have rather spent that hour eating oysters on the ocean or some such

i also managed to lock myself out of a parking garage. we used an app to find chargers and we found an L1 charger near where we were going for drinks and dinner. we knew the L1s are slow, but figured we might as well charge for the 3-4 hours we would be in the area and not driving. we entered a parking garage and took a ticket like normal, and proceeded down a ramp and found the EV chargers. we apparently missed signage that down the ramp was for residents only and that public parking was only on the top level. we then found ourselves locked out of the lower level where the car was. finally a resident came by and got us down to where our car is and also got us out of the garage, because our ticket wouldn't open the gate.

the charging caused me very high stress for the first 24 hours of the trip. the superchargers were all in the suburbs so i had to go out of my way or plan a charge on the way out to a day trip. 'tesla destination chargers' came in handy at a couple of businesses. but if you show up and the charger is occupied, you're fucked.

 

[kickstand]

'tesla destination chargers' came in handy at a couple of businesses. but if you show up and the charger is occupied, you're fucked.

We didn't run into issues with the Tesla chargers, but we did have once where all the regular chargers were occupied in the garage we went to. That led to us finding another garage, trying to get it to work, having lots of problems, calling tech support, they didn't speak English (our French is limited) and realizing after the call we were telling them the wrong location. After eating dinner at the first place that could seat us (we were starving), we then had to drive 20 minutes in another direction to the closest Tesla station. It was a clusterfuck of sizable proportions....

 

[drjeff]

The reality is that right now, and for probably the next 5 to 10 yrs(or more) until a reliable, dependable, readily available networks of charging stations with adequate power supplied to them to reflect what so many of our actual driving habits are, that there should be more gas/electric hybrids produced than pure EV's. You would likely also see a greater acceptance amongst the EV hesitant this way as well, and likely in a non partisan way, as unfortunately it is for some. EV's, just like gas/diesel powered vehicles have many pro's, but for those who deny that both also do have cons, then that just isn't someone who is open to having an honest conversation about the entire picture over just some kind of glorified virtue signaling.

I will admit that I do like my wife's Volvo XC90 gas/electric hybrid that she got this past Spring. It's great for running around town on all battery. But for long trips, or even the 30 or so miles each way she has to/from work, the battery life isn't there, let alone for the roughly 300 miles round trip we have to/from Mount Snow from our house. That she can do mainly on gas, but without having to stop along the way for the entire weekend. That savings of time and not having to worry about where a charging station is and/or if there will be an available charger there and how long it will take to charge, frankly is worth in convenience wise for us, even if it offends some of the EV purests. If I am replacing something for new technology, in general I want that technology to be atleast as good, and often better than what I am replacing. A true EV at this point, for what my familes driving habits are often, just isn't an apples to apples comparison over either a gas/electric hybrid or a straight gas powered vehicle

 

[Granite1]

Good luck getting your Tesla fixed when it's an accident. It has in the past, and in the future will take up to 6 months or longer to get the parts and the body shop to fix the car. Tesla requires you to use one of their certified body shops. They aren't very many Tesla certified shops (none here in NH) and they will have so many wrecked Tesla cars you'll be waiting a long time to get your Tesla fixed. Furthermore, Tesla certified shops want about twice the prevailing labor rates that insurance companies are paying, so get your wallet out to pay the difference.

 

[Smellytele]

Okay how long are the batteries supposed to last? Not saying how long they stay charged but how long in years?

 

[Edd]

Good luck getting your Tesla fixed when it's an accident. It has in the past, and in the future will take up to 6 months or longer to get the parts and the body shop to fix the car. Tesla requires you to use one of their certified body shops. They aren't very many Tesla certified shops (none here in NH) and they will have so many wrecked Tesla cars you'll be waiting a long time to get your Tesla fixed. Furthermore, Tesla certified shops want about twice the prevailing labor rates that insurance companies are paying, so get your wallet out to pay the difference.

If you buy a Tesla, you’re inherently agreeing to spending more $ period. It’s a new car company using cutting edge tech with all the problems that come with a luxury brand. An informed buyer should be fine with that.

I‘m not, and with limits on my income and a person who skis northern New England extensively, any EV (even mainstream car companies) just don’t work for my lifestyle. Hybrids from this point on for us, until the price points, technology, and infrastructure catch up. This 2035 goal for Massachusetts will be pushed back, I’d bet, and who knows what northern New England will do?

 

[BodeMiller1]

This past summer we went to France for a week. We stayed in Paris, but spent 2 nights in Strasbourg. When my wife rented a car, she did it online thru a 3rd party (Expedia or something) and rented a "class" of car, thinking we would get a BMW or Audi, maybe. We got a Tesla. At first, we were pretty excited. Then, the realization of needing to charge the car and planning our stops around charging set in. Not something we even considered when we decided to do the side trip to Strasbourg. The trip is roughly 300 miles. We couldn't make it on a single charge. We didn't have a good map of where the chargers were, outside of the Tesla superchargers. Not good cell phone reception in the French countryside to find charging stations.

There are many more details to the story, but the gist of it is we wasted 5-6 hours of that part of the trip just dealing with charging related issues. That was really the last thing we wanted to deal with or spend time on, especially on vacation in a foreign country. I had heard Europe was all-in on EVs, but I was expecting many more charging stations. Maybe it was where in France we were driving just didn't have the infrastructure for it. I don't know. But never again will I get an EV for a drive of any serious length.

It was a pretty sweet ride though.......

All skiers know batteries loose power (storage when cold). Does anyone know how much the storage of a Tesla battery falls off as you go from 40F to 30F, 30F to 20F and so on. I'm thinking in nature there are no linear patterns. So, it must fall off for every 10 degrees more and more, butt by how much.
E cars have great acceleration because they have nice low speed acceleration, butt if you can't do 120MPH on I93 for >1 hr what good is it?

 

[BodeMiller1]

Tesla meow, try getting someone to turn wrenches on Audi, VW, Mercedes and those. Again Granite 1 is right. ALL of Tesla's parts still are under pattens (probably). Because Musk has the money to copy right.
I'm guessing there are mechanics that will work on a Tesla, butt that will void the paperwork.
Not sure what the margins are on anything Tesla, butt they must be sky high. Musk is like Delorean butt, a much deeper and better thinker. some of us are old enough to know how Delorean tried to bail out his manufacturing business.

 

[RichT]

Hybrid is the ONLY way to go for the foreseeable future if EV is your choice. For me, I prefer a internal combustion engine.

 

[tumbler]

Probably discussed already but my issue with EV's besides distance limitations are the generation of the electricity and the amount of Co2 is generated from the mining to get the lithium for the batteries. The electricity is coming from coal plants. Solar and wind are just so people can feel good about themselves. Most have no idea what is takes to mine lithium and the destruction it does. Huge mining operations with toxic water leftover as one of the by products. Not to mention the electric grid that would need to be totally overhauled and upsized. Hybrid with the battery recharging when gliding, braking is the most realistic

 

[abc]

Says the man who lives in an ugly city where open space is already nonexistent.

I happen to think city are beautiful! High rises to be exact.

I prefer the sight of wind farm over an empty field.

Each of their own

 

[MidnightJester]

Musk is like Delorean but a much deeper and better thinker. some of us are old enough to know how Delorean tried to bail out his manufacturing business.

Hey the Delorean is about to be relaunched as a all Electric EV $(125,000) 300 mile range battery. Kinda lol

DeLorean

DeLorean is a legacy mobility company focused on redefining human connections through creative technologies.

delorean.com

 

[IceEidolon]

In addition to EV owners having to pay their fair share of highway taxes based on the miles they drive, they also need to pay a large surcharge for the electricity they use to charge their batteries. This would be to pay for the planned infrastructure to build charging stations.

I'll point out that anyone driving a car or smaller SUV is being fleeced to pay for road maintenance - road damage increases exponentially as vehicle weight increases. Semis do something north of 95% of all highway wear and tear caused by vehicles. The correct answer is to charge by ton-miles, and just about everyone will see their road use fees drop but shipping costs rise.

Me subsidizing Amazon with my gas tax really feels great.

 

[Andrew B.]

Wv

Good luck getting your Tesla fixed when it's an accident. It has in the past, and in the future will take up to 6 months or longer to get the parts and the body shop to fix the car. Tesla requires you to use one of their certified body shops. They aren't very many Tesla certified shops (none here in NH) and they will have so many wrecked Tesla cars you'll be waiting a long time to get your Tesla fixed. Furthermore, Tesla certified shops want about twice the prevailing labor rates that insurance companies are paying, so get your wallet out to pay the difference.

Ever Own a Mercedes, BMW or Audi? I haven’t.
Some cars do come with a premium tho.

Name plates have never been a reason for me to buy a car.

 

[skiur]

I'll point out that anyone driving a car or smaller SUV is being fleeced to pay for road maintenance - road damage increases exponentially as vehicle weight increases. Semis do something north of 95% of all highway wear and tear caused by vehicles. The correct answer is to charge by ton-miles, and just about everyone will see their road use fees drop but shipping costs rise.

Me subsidizing Amazon with my gas tax really feels great.

Ever been on the parkways in NY/NJ/CT? Just as beat up as the interstates. 95% of the damage is done by freeze/thaw cycles.

 

[1dog]

Probably discussed already but my issue with EV's besides distance limitations are the generation of the electricity and the amount of Co2 is generated from the mining to get the lithium for the batteries. The electricity is coming from coal plants. Solar and wind are just so people can feel good about themselves. Most have no idea what is takes to mine lithium and the destruction it does. Huge mining operations with toxic water leftover as one of the by products. Not to mention the electric grid that would need to be totally overhauled and upsized. Hybrid with the battery recharging when gliding, braking is the most realistic

Don't make them look 'under the hood' Tumbler. Its all about feeling good reducing the stuff we exhale and plants inhale, oceans, animals, etc. emit.

 

[kbroderick]

On the suitable for long trips thing: the people I know who own EVs seem to be okay with the charging networks (in general), but I would definitely expect a learning curve if I were to rent one, just as I found a learning curve about diesel availability when I had a diesel truck.

But that also overlooks a significant detail in the US: a whole lot of US households have multiple cars and already prefer one over the other for road trips. In many, if not most cases, having one EV and one ICE or hybrid-ICE (or multiples of one type or the other). FWIW, my ex and I would've fallen into that category—her driving habits would've nicely fit most EV capabilities with overnight charging, and we were already using my truck for longer trips.

And yes, grid capabilities are a real issue. On one extreme, I'd look at Cooke City, Montana—it's a huge snowmobile destination (and also has some cool backcountry skiing), but it doesn't have much in terms of infrastructure. If a significant portion of the slednecks started showing up with electric sleds (which, IMO, is a real possibility—electric motors don't loose power at elevation like non-boosted ICE do, and they have the instant torque that mountain sledders want), the local grid would probably be in trouble. And yes, that has the potential to be even more of an issue in tourist towns than in suburbia, as many tourist towns have overall infrastructure that's more adept at supporting the year-round population than the peak population, but it is a solvable problem, and small-scale generation (particularly rooftop solar) can have a significant impact as well.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Ever been on the parkways in NY/NJ/CT? Just as beat up as the interstates. 95% of the damage is done by freeze/thaw cycles.

Salt

 

[skiur]

Salt

Salt damages the cars, not so much the roads.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Wv

Ever Own a Mercedes, BMW or Audi? I haven’t.
Some cars do come with a premium tho.

Name plates have never been a reason for me to buy a car.8

One "rule" I live by is drive / own Fords. I've had a VW Jetta, Dodge (Mitsubishi) pickup and Mercury Cougar 5L V8.
Food for thought if you cost out a Ford Vs. Mercedes which is more expensive?

If you look at the brakes the Merecedes are soft and you get brake dust, butt it's a smother maybe faster stop. I don't care about that, I just want the car to stop pretty much where I'd like it,

Most of the industry is component driven. For example, SEL is a body type you see from many manufacturers who build small SUVs. Is a Ford EDGE SEL better than a Toyota Meow SEL? I don't care.

One thing I spoil myself with are windshields. When you drive fast they get pitted and it makes me (not sure the word), so I get new glass every 120,000 or so depending on if I hit a deer or Moosey.

Steering wheels on some expensive cars are stainless. This sucks, sunlight comes in and reflects into my eyes so I black them out with electrical tape. (I always ski with a black diamond on the rear of my left ski and two on my right. This keeps people from banging their tips into my equipment in lift lines... (it doesn't always work ))