EVs - New Hampshire gets it right

[1dog]

I have no problem with EV's I hope everybody buys one because it will bring the demand for gas down thus lowing the price which will be good for me! LOL

Wish that were true Hawk. Not a volume problem, its a regulation problem. Was $1.89 at Exit 9 on I89 in NH Jan 2021 when we were energy independent. When the CEO of Ford complains like this : https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/reality-check-ford-ceo-struggles-to-charge-ev-during-road-trip/
you know it's not sustainable with current technology.
If I were a board member his ass would have been gone. Invests billions and doesn't see results like this that were evident long before they ever built that Duracell-powered, over-priced piece of crap ( never mind towing anything). I know, it wasn't just stockholder cash, it was all that federal incentive cash they knew was gonna be delivered. Our tax dollars. Solyndra on steroids. Heck even Germany deconstructing wind to make way for coal. ( where 40% of that battery power comes from)

Gale force hypocrisy: German Greens kill wind farm for coal mine | The Spectator Australia

The world laughed last week when news spread that the Green-run government of Germany’s North Rhine-Westphalia approved the removal of a wind farm to make way for the urgent expansion of a coal mine.

www.spectator.com.au

 

[deadheadskier]

You serious Clark?

Gas being $1.89 in January 2021 had almost nothing to do with policy and everything to do with supply and demand of a globally traded commodity during a pandemic with an unprecedented drop in demand.

And saying we have ever been "energy independent" in modern times is completely disingenuous. Being a net+ exporter =/= energy independent. We still participated in the global market the same as always and the price pressures were largely dictated by global market forces.

As for electric vehicles being a "Duracell piece of crap?", good luck with that POV. Electric is by far the way to go and it's not because it isn't carbon based; it's because the technology is about three times as efficient with power through put vs ICE. And there's been a paltry amount of money invested in R&D for those vehicles over a fraction of the history we've been trying to improve ICE vehicles. Throw in the minimal amount of maintenance these vehicles require and it is going to be a no brainer very soon.

That's reality.

And I'm not some greeny either. I'm posting this from my boat that has a big ole V8 that I love, that barely gets me 2 mpg on the water.

 

[skiur]

Wish that were true Hawk. Not a volume problem, its a regulation problem. Was $1.89 at Exit 9 on I89 in NH Jan 2021 when we were energy independent. When the CEO of Ford complains like this : https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/reality-check-ford-ceo-struggles-to-charge-ev-during-road-trip/
you know it's not sustainable with current technology.
If I were a board member his ass would have been gone. Invests billions and doesn't see results like this that were evident long before they ever built that Duracell-powered, over-priced piece of crap ( never mind towing anything). I know, it wasn't just stockholder cash, it was all that federal incentive cash they knew was gonna be delivered. Our tax dollars. Solyndra on steroids. Heck even Germany deconstructing wind to make way for coal. ( where 40% of that battery power comes from)

Gale force hypocrisy: German Greens kill wind farm for coal mine | The Spectator Australia

The world laughed last week when news spread that the Green-run government of Germany’s North Rhine-Westphalia approved the removal of a wind farm to make way for the urgent expansion of a coal mine.

www.spectator.com.au

You really sound like a fool with that post.

 

[RichT]

You serious Clark?

Gas being $1.89 in January 2021 had almost nothing to do with policy and everything to do with supply and demand of a globally traded commodity during a pandemic with an unprecedented drop in demand.

And saying we have ever been "energy independent" in modern times is completely disingenuous. Being a net+ exporter =/= energy independent. We still participated in the global market the same as always and the price pressures were largely dictated by global market forces.

As for electric vehicles being a "Duracell piece of crap?", good luck with that POV. Electric is by far the way to go and it's not because it isn't carbon based; it's because the technology is about three times as efficient with power through put vs ICE. And there's been a paltry amount of money invested in R&D for those vehicles over a fraction of the history we've been trying to improve ICE vehicles. Throw in the minimal amount of maintenance these vehicles require and it is going to be a no brainer very soon.

That's reality.

And I'm not some greeny either. I'm posting this from my boat that has a big ole V8 that I love, that barely gets me 2 mpg on the water.

Nope I'm going to go with Hydrogen...........the Japanese have got this covered. We just need our government/Big Oil to get the F out of the way!!!!!

 

[skiur]

Nope I'm going to go with Hydrogen...........the Japanese have got this covered. We just need our government/Big Oil to get the F out of the way!!!!!

Your going with hydrogen while all the major auto companies are going with electric. Not saying hydrogen isn't good or even better than electric, just doesn't matter as the choice has been made and it is electric.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would think Hydrogen to be better too, but yes electric is what everyone is doing. I would think it's because the infrastructure at homes is already there.

I fully expect some astonishing advancements in the next ten years with battery improvements and increased efficiencies with the cars. 1000 mile ranges on very fast charging.

I look at the cardiac monitoring equipment I sell. Monitors I sold five years ago could run on two LI batteries for 4 hours. The equivalent today can run 8 hours on just one of those same batteries.

The big investment in electric is only beginning

 

[drjeff]

I would think Hydrogen to be better too, but yes electric is what everyone is doing. I would think it's because the infrastructure at homes is already there.

I fully expect some astonishing advancements in the next ten years with battery improvements and increased efficiencies with the cars. 1000 mile ranges on very fast charging.

I look at the cardiac monitoring equipment I sell. Monitors I sold five years ago could run on two LI batteries for 4 hours. The equivalent today can run 8 hours on just one of those same batteries.

The big investment in electric is only beginning

And yet, OBJECTIVELY, so many parts of this country right now CAN'T meet the current demand power usage in regular heat waves or cold snaps.

How's that going to work out if the current administration's push for fully EV's by 2030 (a target that both auto manufacturers and power supply folks of both green and fossil fuel generation types admit is completely unrealistic) going to work out.

Gas/diesel electric hybrids are where the focus (likely) should be for the next 10-20 yrs. All EV with what the capabilities of our current (and likely for decades unless this country gets past its nuclear power generation hang ups) power grid is, is about as realistic as expecting a perfect 12" blower powder day at our favorite New England ski area on the 4th of July. And to think otherwise is just pure ideological brain washed denial of reality

 

[skef]

Some perspective on hydrogen:

Climate consequences of hydrogen emissions

Abstract. Given the urgency to decarbonize global energy systems, governments and industry are moving ahead with efforts to increase deployment of hydrogen technologies, infrastructure, and applications at an unprecedented pace, including USD billions in national incentives and direct...

acp.copernicus.org

 

[BenedictGomez]

You serious Clark?

Gas being $1.89 in January 2021 had almost nothing to do with policy and everything to do with supply and demand of a globally traded commodity during a pandemic with an unprecedented drop in demand.

Spot on.

saying we have ever been "energy independent" in modern times is completely disingenuous. Being a net+ exporter =/= energy independent. We still participated in the global market the same as always and the price pressures were largely dictated by global market forces.

Here you're off though. We don't have enough refineries in America to process all of our raw goods. That's. The. Issue.

In the last 25 years there have been fewer than TEN refineries built, while the previous ones age like a double chair without repairs. And........I'm going to drop a fact that's going to draw immediate criticism by Team Blue, but the reality is the Democrats try to kill off all new refining capacity proposed in America from sea to shining sea. If it wasn't political in a juvenile manner of "teh foszil fule iz BahD", America would absolutely be energy independent and not beholden to Saudi and other murderers & crooks. We should be energy independent, but we're not because of Democrats preventing it for sophomoric political points scored with a base which doesn't understand global energy policy.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Nope I'm going to go with Hydrogen...........the Japanese have got this covered. We just need our government/Big Oil to get the F out of the way!!!!!

And so......... thousands die this winter? Not sure you really understand current hydrogen technology and where that's at given the above comment.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I fully expect some astonishing advancements in the next ten years with battery improvements and increased efficiencies with the cars. 1000 mile ranges on very fast charging.

I've spoken with some of the leaders in this technology on the planet, and let me assure you given some unexpected breakthrough that's not happening by 2033. I mean, who knows, maybe you'll be right, but if you are it's via something completely unknown to science today. Nobody is currently sitting on anything like what you're stating in the pipeline. And due to regulatory, it takes YEARS to get a tech today into an approved battery on US roads. So even if we had a 1000 mile battery today (and we dont), you probably wouldn't see it in a Subaru or a Ford until at least 2028/9.

 

[Edd]

This news caught my eye this summer.

Toyota Touts Solid State EVs With 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

The Japanese automaker says it has found a new material that will help commercialize the elusive, long-awaited solid state battery, but it's light on details.

www.pcmag.com

Conceptually I like the hydrogen model more, but know little of the feasibility. The power grid issue seems very real.Toyota isn’t saying what this “new material” is, so taking this news above with a big bag of salt. 10 minute charging is light years better than now. The long charging times are a giant problem for people without houses.

BTW, just got out of a Mercedes EV taxi in Denmark. Nicest taxi I’ve ever used.

 

[deadheadskier]

Spot on.



Here you're off though. We don't have enough refineries in America to process all of our raw goods. That's. The. Issue.

In the last 25 years there have been fewer than TEN refineries built, while the previous ones age like a double chair without repairs. And........I'm going to drop a fact that's going to draw immediate criticism by Team Blue, but the reality is the Democrats try to kill off all new refining capacity proposed in America from sea to shining sea. If it wasn't political in a juvenile manner of "teh foszil fule iz BahD", America would absolutely be energy independent and not beholden to Saudi and other murderers & crooks. We should be energy independent, but we're not because of Democrats preventing it for sophomoric political points scored with a base which doesn't understand global energy policy.

You're a smart guy BG. Facts require data. So, where is your data?

I mean, yes philosophically, Democrats are often more against the petroleum industry than many Republicans, but I also think you conservatives can chew on pundit talking points a bit too hard.

Here are all the new refineries that have been opened in this country, coincidentally, since the year I was born.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

There's no real pattern there showing development advantages during one political party's control vs the other. Republicans have had plenty of opportunities when in power to push through more capacity. It's not 100% on the Democrats that this hasn't occurred to the levels you think it should.

And it's not always that these projects are stopped at the federal level. There can be local opposition that kills such projects. One such example is right where I live

Onassis Refinery Plan Divides New Hampshire Area (Published 1974)

residents of Durham, NH, and surrounding towns have been plunged into controversy following Gov Meldrim Thomson Jr's announcement that A S Onassis plans $600‐million oil refinery in Durham; conservationists and some homeowners see threat to coast while some officials and residents of...

www.nytimes.com

That would have been an absolute disaster to the pristine Great Bay environment. If my annual expense on gas is a bit higher because that refinery wasn't built, well I'm ok with that. Call me a NIMBY if you wish. I'm glad that project was stopped.

And again, as time marches on, the lack of refining capacity isn't going to matter. I'd argue that the pursuit of electric dominance in the auto industry is more about it simply being a vastly more efficient way to power a vehicle vs ICE, than it is about policy or being "green." With the ICE 75+% of energy is wasted. With electric it's about 25%. Pretty obvious what technology should be pursued.

 

[deadheadskier]

I've spoken with some of the leaders in this technology on the planet, and let me assure you given some unexpected breakthrough that's not happening by 2033. I mean, who knows, maybe you'll be right, but if you are it's via something completely unknown to science today. Nobody is currently sitting on anything like what you're stating in the pipeline. And due to regulatory, it takes YEARS to get a tech today into an approved battery on US roads. So even if we had a 1000 mile battery today (and we dont), you probably wouldn't see it in a Subaru or a Ford until at least 2028/9.

How about a wager? In 2033 if there isn't an EV in a show room that Joe consumer can buy that has a 1000 mile range, I will buy your season pass for the 2033-4 season. It very well might be an extremely expensive luxury model like the Teslas now that can get 400 miles, but I bet there will be a car you or I can buy that has that kind of range by 2033. If I'm right, you buy my pass.

 

[deadheadskier]

And yet, OBJECTIVELY, so many parts of this country right now CAN'T meet the current demand power usage in regular heat waves or cold snaps.

How's that going to work out if the current administration's push for fully EV's by 2030 (a target that both auto manufacturers and power supply folks of both green and fossil fuel generation types admit is completely unrealistic) going to work out.

Gas/diesel electric hybrids are where the focus (likely) should be for the next 10-20 yrs. All EV with what the capabilities of our current (and likely for decades unless this country gets past its nuclear power generation hang ups) power grid is, is about as realistic as expecting a perfect 12" blower powder day at our favorite New England ski area on the 4th of July. And to think otherwise is just pure ideological brain washed denial of reality

Let me know when grid concerns throttles the quantity of EVs available for sale.

Will you see times of demand surges during certain weather events that limits availability of power to charge? Yes, you probably will until the grid catches up. Kinda like how there are rolling brown outs today in places like California. Those will just be periods of temporary inconvenience. But, I don't believe they will result in any limits at all to the amount of EVs for sale. It may give some consumers pause though.

 

[1dog]

The problem of energy is not solved by EV's. And even a 932 mile battery ( on perfect environment/temps) can't change that.

Energy density is one thing

EVs Just Could Be the 'Biggest Scam of Modern Times' - Discern Report

My family and I were traveling when we were passed by a gasoline-powered truck pulling a sickeningly eco-green colored trailer with an EV truck on it. Why was this new super-duper environmentally friendly truck being towed by the environmentally “destroying” gasoline-powered vehicle? A little...

discernreport.com

another is theres not enough base minerals - lithium predominately -in the globe to power them. And that previously mentioned Manhattan Institute exhaustive study mentions the complete reversal of the entire purpose - to reduce the 'footprint' of fossil fuels that ruin the earth. ( we'll leave the slave labor to produce it, and the total cost being higher aside for now).

We were net exporters until executive orders on Jan 21, 2021 changed that - it wasn't demand.

EVS store, they do not create. ICE creates.

This may be temporary but its a huge issue:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...-defecting-to-internal-combustion/ar-AA1gdLUa

A view from Euro-zone:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/09/02/the-electric-car-debacle-shows-the-top-down-economics-of-net-zero-dont-add-up/

If we insist on electric anything, this is the way to go- clean, inexpensive, and vastly reduced waste from say 40 years ago - its where much of northern Euro-zone folks are headed:

On Energy, Finally Some Good News

I see that everything I have written today is about energy, which makes sense given that, along with general civilizational collapse, it is the defining issue of our time. So let’s finally ha…

www.powerlineblog.com

 

[deadheadskier]

You are doubling down on gas being $1.89 in January 2021 because of policy?

No one with a rudimentary understanding of economics is going to take that thought seriously.

 

[Smellytele]

Your going with hydrogen while all the major auto companies are going with electric. Not saying hydrogen isn't good or even better than electric, just doesn't matter as the choice has been made and it is electric.

for now

 

[BodeMiller1]

tax and spend libs like the OP are going to ruin NH.

They're taking our jobs. I'm considering getting an EV as a backup generator. Going to wait until they are reliable enough and it won't just drive away on its own when it's board. They're about ten years out assuming no set backs.

 

[BodeMiller1]

You are doubling down on gas being $1.89 in January 2021 because of policy?

No one with a rudimentary understanding of economics is going to take that thought seriously.

If we opened up reasonable places to drill and built a few pipelines you could easily get the price under two dollars a gallon. No question about it.