EVs - New Hampshire gets it right

[drjeff]

How much more do EVs weight than an SUV or pick up truck that weighs 5000-7000 lbs? I see a lot more SUVs and PU trucks on the road than EVs so I gotta call BS on the weight issues.

My full sized GMC Acadia ICE weighs per a quick search roughly 4500lbs.

My wife's Volvo XC90 Plug in gas/electric hybrid per a quick search weighs about 5300 lbs.

The overall exterior dimensions of both of our vehicles are within a couple of inches of each other.

 

[skiur]

My full sized GMC Acadia ICE weighs per a quick search roughly 4500lbs.

My wife's Volvo XC90 Plug in gas/electric hybrid per a quick search weighs about 5300 lbs.

The overall exterior dimensions of both of our vehicles are within a couple of inches of each other.

And my Jeep Grand Cherokee weighs the same as your wife's Volvo. F150s which you see all over are 6-7000 lbs. That's about what a suburban weighs too. The amount of these vehicles vs EVs is gotta be at least 25-1. The weight argument holds no water.

 

[Smellytele]

And my Jeep Grand Cherokee weighs the same as your wife's Volvo. F150s which you see all over are 6-7000 lbs. That's about what a suburban weighs too. The amount of these vehicles vs EVs is gotta be at least 25-1. The weight argument holds no water.

Now who is making up numbers...

https://www.maxwellford.com/blog/model/2024-ford-f-150-single-cab-curb-weight/#:~:text=This%20unmatched%20pickup%20truck's%20curb,HP%20for%20the%20base%20model.

"This unmatched pickup truck’s curb weight is expected to stay between 4021 to 4690 pounds."

 

[Smellytele]

and grand Cherokee...

https://www.bobhowardcjd.com/blog/model/2024-jeep-grand-cherokee-curb-weight/#:~:text=This%20unparalleled%20mid%2Dsize%20SUV's,depending%20on%20the%20trim%20level.

"mid-size SUV’s curb weight is between 4,238-4,784 pounds."

 

[1dog]

Skiur correct: Chat GPT:

The weight of an F150 pickup truck varies depending on the specific model and configuration, but it typically ranges from around 4,000 to 5,600 pounds (1,800 to 2,500 kilograms) for newer models. On the other hand, a Tesla Model S, for example, weighs around 4,800 to 4,900 pounds (2,180 to 2,220 kilograms). So, generally speaking, the F150 pickup is heavier than a Tesla Model S.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Electric vehicles definitely weigh more than comparable ICE vehicles due to the many batteries and heavy metals they employ. Batteries are just heavy. The Cybertruck's close to 7,000 pounds. Saw one in the wild the other day in Park City, it's just as ugly in person as in the photos.

 

[skiur]

Regardless, EVs and SUVs are within a few hundred pounds of each other making the weight argument moot.

 

[eatskisleep]

But you need to compare EV large SUV’s to ICE large SUV’s. Apples to apples.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would be interested to hear what those who say EVs cause more road damage estimate is the percentage difference compared to ICE vehicles. Seems to me it would be insignificant. Whatever the weight difference is, probably is offset by fewer miles driven. My guess is the average EV sees far fewer road miles than ICE vehicles.

I assume commercial vehicles cause the majority of the deterioration.

 

[AdironRider]

I would be interested to hear what those who say EVs cause more road damage estimate is the percentage difference compared to ICE vehicles. Seems to me it would be insignificant. Whatever the weight difference is, probably is offset by fewer miles driven. My guess is the average EV sees far fewer road miles than ICE vehicles.

I assume commercial vehicles cause the majority of the deterioration.

Fourth power law:

Fourth power law - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is actually quite significant, notably at scale. If in 2030 we go from 8 percent EV adoption to 70 percent those effects are tangible and real.

Here is another link to a more simple chart. I think the comparison between a Highlander at just over 4k pounds, and a Tahoe (a better representation of EV weight) is pretty illustrative. Just adding 1250 pounds or so increases road wear by almost three times.

Chart of the Day: Vehicle Weight vs Road Damage Levels

Via Pedal Fort Collins, here’s a simple chart showing the basic relationship between vehicle weight and the amount of “damage” or wear that is caused to the roadway. The relations…

streets.mn

 

[Harvey]

I don't agree the weight is moot.

We are moving to the mountains full time in the next twelve months. I'll be selling my (Honda CRV) hybrid and replacing it with an ICE. Ideally a Toyota Stout or a small pickup with awd.

The hybrid is awesome in the warmer months in the suburbs. I'm getting 40-50 around here in NJ.

But when I drive it to the mountains in winter (highway), it's much more average, maybe 30-35.

And when I drive it in the mountains it's no better than a regular CRV, 20-30. When you haul those batteries up hill it wipes out your gains from the flats and downhills. Every time we drive "home" in the Adk, the drive ends with a 900 foot vertical climb. I get 50-60 going into town and less then 20 coming back.

Plus, a lighter car is just more fun IMO.

 

[abc]

I assume commercial vehicles cause the majority of the deterioration.

Totally!

By “commercial”, I believe you’re referring to semis. If one believes in the “4th power laws”, semis cause far more damage to road than regular cars/suvs/pickups.

lighter car is just more fun IMO

Not my short experience of the few times of driving a full EV (aka, not a hybrid). Unlike regular (ICE) “motor”, the electric motor has not hesitation whatsoever. The acceleration was smooth, linear and predictable. Much more fun to drive IME

 

[eatskisleep]

I would be interested to hear what those who say EVs cause more road damage estimate is the percentage difference compared to ICE vehicles. Seems to me it would be insignificant. Whatever the weight difference is, probably is offset by fewer miles driven. My guess is the average EV sees far fewer road miles than ICE vehicles.

I assume commercial vehicles cause the majority of the deterioration.

The other issue right now is EV’s aren’t taxed the same. With ICE you at least pay a gas tax which goes towards roadway maintenance.

 

[BodeMiller1]

A Tesla plant is being built in Vermont. Game, set, match.

 

[Edd]

A Tesla plant is being built in Vermont. Game, set, match.

Not a plant, a dealership.

 

[zyk]

I don't agree the weight is moot.

We are moving to the mountains full time in the next twelve months. I'll be selling my (Honda CRV) hybrid and replacing it with an ICE. Ideally a Toyota Stout or a small pickup with awd.

The hybrid is awesome in the warmer months in the suburbs. I'm getting 40-50 around here in NJ.

But when I drive it to the mountains in winter (highway), it's much more average, maybe 30-35.

And when I drive it in the mountains it's no better than a regular CRV, 20-30. When you haul those batteries up hill it wipes out your gains from the flats and downhills. Every time we drive "home" in the Adk, the drive ends with a 900 foot vertical climb. I get 50-60 going into town and less then 20 coming back.

Plus, a lighter car is just more fun IMO.

Agree. Weight and temperature. We have a rav4 and a rav4 hybrid. The regular is about 27 summer 24 winter. The hybrid 45 summer 36 winter but it drops in the mountains and very cold weather. Maybe 32 ish.

My 88 crx was about 2000 pounds, got near 50, was great fun, but had the structural integrity of a beer can.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Not a plant, a dealership.

Opps

 

[JimG.]

I would be interested to hear what those who say EVs cause more road damage estimate is the percentage difference compared to ICE vehicles. Seems to me it would be insignificant. Whatever the weight difference is, probably is offset by fewer miles driven. My guess is the average EV sees far fewer road miles than ICE vehicles.

I assume commercial vehicles cause the majority of the deterioration.

It'll matter a lot more when 18 wheelers are forced to make the switch.

 

[mister moose]

Agree. Weight and temperature. We have a rav4 and a rav4 hybrid. The regular is about 27 summer 24 winter. The hybrid 45 summer 36 winter but it drops in the mountains and very cold weather. Maybe 32 ish.

But weren't the engine sizes different, ie smaller engine in the hybrid? Seems like you'd need apples to apples acceleration and towing capacity to equate mileage.

 

[zyk]

But weren't the engine sizes different, ie smaller engine in the hybrid? Seems like you'd need apples to apples acceleration and towing capacity to equate mileage.

I believe both have the 2.5 4 cylinder engine. The hybrid is much faster and smoother, but I like the other better off road.