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fan guns
- Thread starter BLESS
- Start date
ERJ-145CA
Active member
This offers some explanation:
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/snow-maker2.htm
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/snow-maker2.htm
Well, they're not necessarily all-around better, nor are they new. In fact, fan guns were around and patented in the industry (Woolin and Hansen, Hedco and SMI) before Air/Water snowguns (henceforth a/w).
There are distinct advantages and disadvantages to both. For ease of viewing, let's make some lists:
Advantages and Disadvantages of Fan-type Snowguns vs. Air/Water Snowguns
Fan Snowgun Advantages:
>Energy efficiency in optimal temperatures (very limited air consumption)
>High volume output in optimal temperatures (usu. 100-250gpm)
>Lower overall infrastructure cost (aside from guns)
----No need to have on-hill air system (expensive compressors and piping, + electricity)
>Quiet
>Long throw (can shoot snow pretty far)
>Marketing value (they LOOK big and powerful!)
Fan Snowgun Disadvantages:
>Large and immobile (require snowcat for moving)
>Lots of moving pieces and electronics/electrical to fail
>Substantial amount of required regular (and emergency) maintenance
----TONS OF NOZZLES!
>Requires 480v power lines to be run up the hill wherever snowmaking will take place
>HUGE initial financial investment for snowguns ($10,000-50,000 per unit)
Air/Water Snowgun Advantages:
>Higher snow volume output in marginal temperatures
>Very mobile (one snowmaker can generally maneuver them with some ease)
>Can be easily tower-mounted
>Inexpensive cost/unit for snowguns ($300-2000 per unit)
>Some can output more volume than fan guns (Rat Snowgiant V can do 270gpm)
>Can be purchased in low-air consumption models (low-energy a/w)
>Almost zero maintenance required
----If it ain't working, hit it with something big and metal... it'll work!
Air/Water Snowgun Disadvantages:
>High energy consumption in marginal temperatures
----Sucking lots and lots of air
>Expensive non-snowgun infrastructure
----Compressors can be $250,000 a piece
----On-hill air leaks can be very costly
>Units that consume a lot of air are LOUD!
----Sound pollution is a serious issue at the base area of resorts with on-hill real estate
I'm sure I've left a few things out, but that should do for starters!
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Rambo
Member
I think the big advantage to Fan Guns is when they are Tower mounted. Hunter Mountain years ago put in a bunch of fan guns mounted on towers and this eliminates having to move them around. Hunter has them lining their main trails. Mount Snow the last 2 or 3 years has intalled millions of dollars worth of tower mounted fan guns.
I had no idea normal snow guns produce more snow than fans. Maybe it's a psychological thing as they look like big bad ass cannons
RootDKJ
New member
I didn't realize the fan guns required 3 phase. while more efficient, that's gotta cost a fortune to build
Well, some models of fan guns make more snow than some models of a/w guns. Just depends on the model and the temps.
Like I said, it can sort of be a marketing-type thing. They look big, and look like they make more snow (because the water/air are being mixed from an eccentric nozzle ring, rather than coming from a single (or small set) central nozzle
For example, this Ratnik Snowgiant V:
will output more volume than this SMI Polecat @ Mt. Snow:
A Super Polecat will output up to 142gpm. A Ratnik Snowgiant V (commonly referred to as "jumbos") will output up to 270gpm.
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Not really, because both types can be tower-mounted. In fact, you'll find many many more tower-mounted a/w guns than fan guns. The option of mobility is key when resurfacing and trying to fill voids. That said, you get a longer throw with a fan gun vs. a/w.
The oscillation option on tower-mounted fan guns is nice, and not very common in an a/w setting (though Ratnik does make an oscillating tower-mount).
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Ski areas run on three phase! AC VFD lifts, fan guns, big AC snowmaking pumps/compressors, etc.
mountainman
Member
Here's one for a snow gun.
Used to have a Larchmont Z gun on it. Been replace with a K gun. ???
Used to have a Larchmont Z gun on it. Been replace with a K gun. ???
One of the large benifits that are present is that fan guns are generally speaking, more energy efficient. Fan guns have the compressors on-board, requiring electrical power be brought to the gun. Other types of snowmaking equipment typically requires external air pressure, meaning generally speaking, diesel compressors which are used to create the pressure, and then it is brought TO the guns.
Additionally, fan guns blow much more air into the mixture, and shoots that mixture higher and farther. The easy benny is the ability to throw the snow all over the place. The harder to understand benifit is this mixture now has much longer hang time, forming less dense snow, which can handle compression caused by skiing much better.
Now, could these technologies be used and retrofitted into existing technologies? Sure can. No reason a compressor can't be brought locally. But to get the hang time, you need a big arse fan of some kind. Once you add that.. Whalla! It's a fan gun. :-D
Forgot to add another advantage of air/water: supercooling! The effect of high volume compressed air expansion causes supercooling and creates a colder microclimate in the plume, which is a major reason more volume can be made in marginal temps.
Yup, that's another solid benny. It almost makes one giggle in the extreme cases where it's like, 36 degrees and they're blowing snow.
Ratnik claims their a/w guns will make snow up to 48 degrees dry bulb. I guess it's conceivable, given an RH of 0% you have a wetbulb of 31.4. Combine that with the supercooling effect of expansion and you're below 28 (minimum temp for actually making snow, due to heat of fusion).
Fascinating stuff, really.
GrilledSteezeSandwich
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The polecats they have at Big Boulder are great..
But.. But...
They're mad steezy!
:lol:
Fo sho bro. MSY. Mad Steezy Yo.
:roll: I'm going to pretend I didn't just type that :roll:
Method9455
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I think what it all comes down to is dollar per cubic yard of snow. Fan guns in low temperatures make snow at a better efficiency than air water guns. While the individual compressors are less efficient than a big one, you more than make up for that by avoiding pressure loss from air leaks in the tubing. In marginal temperatures the air/water guns will out perform the fan guns, but at a huge price.
So what ends up happening is that hills put in a big number of fan guns that put out more snow per hour than the old air/water setup, and run it for fewer hours, during colder periods, and put down the same or more snow for less money.
And you would think because the air/water guns work at more marginal temperatures it would allow places to open sooner, but really when that cold snap comes at the start of the year and the early birds start making snow, it is usually pretty decent temperatures followed by a warm up for a few weeks and then the winter comes in. Whoever can make the most snow in good temperatures win. You see marginal temperatures more during January thaws where the average temperature is still low enough to make snow but you might have a warm period with rain and you need to resurface before a weekend. During this time of year, when it is warm it is too warm for any kind of gun.
So what ends up happening is that hills put in a big number of fan guns that put out more snow per hour than the old air/water setup, and run it for fewer hours, during colder periods, and put down the same or more snow for less money.
And you would think because the air/water guns work at more marginal temperatures it would allow places to open sooner, but really when that cold snap comes at the start of the year and the early birds start making snow, it is usually pretty decent temperatures followed by a warm up for a few weeks and then the winter comes in. Whoever can make the most snow in good temperatures win. You see marginal temperatures more during January thaws where the average temperature is still low enough to make snow but you might have a warm period with rain and you need to resurface before a weekend. During this time of year, when it is warm it is too warm for any kind of gun.
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