Flat ski vs. System

[Hawkshot99]

Today I was bored and talking to someone about if it is worth it to have system bindings over a flat ski and picking your own binding.

We decided it was easier to sell a system, because you don't have to sell a ski then a binding. But neither of us really felt a system was that much better than a flat ski.

Personally I usually like flat skis. the reason is mainly because the types of skis I like are flat(twin tips), but I also like them because I can choose what binding gets to go onto them. i really like Rossi Axial bindings, and can only get a system with them on Rossi's or Dynastars, so I like flat.

 

[snoseek]

I don't like all the extra weight involved with a lot of the systems.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

For me, it's a toss up. I have some B5 and M11 Metrons that I love, but they are way heavy. While they work well in powder and crud, I'm happier in those siuations on my powderbirds w/ Freeride Plus or Big Stix with Dukes.

I think in general, the "systems" only help on "firmer" groomed.

 

[madskier6]

Doesn't it depend on the type of ski you're buying? Meaning, if you're looking for a carving ski, systems are predominately what's available & there's benefits to a system ski for carving. I know there's systems available on some midfats like a Volkl AC40, which strictly speaking aren't carving skis. But they are more like a carver than a freeride floater.

If you're looking for a powder or freeride ski (including twin tips), systems generally aren't available & there's very little benefit to having them. I may be wrong about all this but that's how I thought it worked.

Now if the question is: I'm looking at 2 all mountain midfats in the 70-85 mm waist range. One has a system & the other is flat. Which ski do you prefer? That's a different question. I would make that decision based on the ski's characteristics & feel for my skiing style, not on whether it has an integrated binding system. If I'm looking to save a few bucks by using an existing binding that I already have, then economics drives that decision & you go with the flat ski. But if money is not an issue, then I would base the decision solely on which ski I prefer based on how it skis & reacts to the type of terrain I like to ski. Whether it's a system binding is almost meaningless in that situation, isn't it?

 

[Warp Daddy]

I do like the system s on My Atomic Sx 10's but the suckers are HEAVY , especially when you are yo yo skiing for 5-6 hrs in an area with NO footrests - UGHH

 

[Hawkshot99]

I mostly agree with you Madskier. The reason the entire conversation came up is we were thinking of carrying Dynastar next year. You can get the Legend 8000, and a bunch of their other skis either as a flat ski, or you can get it as a system ski.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I do like the system s on My Atomic Sx 10's but the suckers are HEAVY , especially when you are yo yo skiing for 5-6 hrs in an area with NO footrests - UGHH

The neox binders on my LT11s are heavy as all Heezy..

 

[Greg]

I prefer flat mounts. Considering the way I ski I will never fully take advantage of a binding system. I would rather minimize weight as well.

 

[Warp Daddy]

The neox binders on my LT11s are heavy as all Heezy..

Yeah mine are Neox 4-12's on both pairs ---heavy but damn the skis ARE fast

 

[madskier6]

I mostly agree with you Madskier. The reason the entire conversation came up is we were thinking of carrying Dynastar next year. You can get the Legend 8000, and a bunch of their other skis either as a flat ski, or you can get it as a system ski.

In that case, for that model ski, I'd prefer buying it flat. I wouldn't be buying a Legend 8000 to rail on groomers, so I'd prefer to choose my own bindings (either new or existing ones I already have).

 

[millerm277]

I prefer a flat ski over a system, because I like to pick my own binding, and I prefer a lighter ski.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

The neox binders on my LT11s are heavy as all Heezy..

Yeah mine are Neox 4-12's on both pairs ---heavy but damn the skis ARE fast

Funny...I have Neox 4.12 on my Crimsons and I think of them as light. Much lighter than the Look TX 7.0 on my Betacarv 9.18.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Funny...I have Neox 4.12 on my Crimsons and I think of them as light. Much lighter than the Look TX 7.0 on my Betacarv 9.18.

That's a first..my Rossi Mojo 15s on my Rossi Scratch BC Sprayers are much better binders IMHO..and are lighter..

 

[bigbog]

...

Maybe it is just a personal preference. However the way I've heard it...right or wrong... for more feel ..ie bump/powder/all-mtn(some) tools, you want to be closer to the ski, whereas with a carving/all-mtn-carve ski you want the fastest and greatest response to any angulation you create = the higher up you are, the less movement you have to make...y/n? ..But seems as though there could be some technically specific reasoning..(ie ski-dimension-specs).that I have no idea of...

 

[deadheadskier]

I voted to flat, but that said, I've never tried a 'system' ski. From what I understand, flat mounting is probably best for the type of skiing I usually do. That said, I wouldn't mind having a set of race stock system rippers in my quiver for hard snow days. I feel I can lay over my skis and carve pretty well as it is, but I would love to try a true race carve ski today. Haven't been on a set of race skis in over ten years and I think it would be fun to try.

The primary reason I'll probably mainly stick to flat though is I tend to hold onto bindings until I either break them or a ski shop refuses to work with them.

 

[thinnmann]

I mostly agree with you Madskier. The reason the entire conversation came up is we were thinking of carrying Dynastar next year. You can get the Legend 8000, and a bunch of their other skis either as a flat ski, or you can get it as a system ski.

Can't you order both?

 

[riverc0il]

There seem to be some technological performance increases with system skis in the right conditions. That said, it mostly seems like a marketing/sales idea due to the horizontal integration of binding and ski companies. What better way to ensure a Look binding is mounted on a Dynastar ski or a Marker on a Volkl? I have a system on my groomer/carver ski in my quiver but that will remain the one and only system in my quiver. Overall, I prefer flat since systems do not add as much performance (and can take away in some cases due to higher stack height) in many natural snow conditions that are not groomed out. Flat skis also allow binding transfers so you can reuse your old bindings (bindings are getting pretty darned expensive these days) and keep prices lower for skis. As previously mentioned by others, flat skis also allow freedom of choice so you can match your favorite binding with your favorite ski. Bundling in most industries helps some people save money when they want all the aspects of the bundle. However, savvy consumers are often not served best by bundles options including system skis.

Hawkshot99, regarding the decision your shop is facing, I think it all comes down to target demographics. Who are you selling the skis to? People that prefer groomers and are looking for a "all mountain mid-fat" with a lot of excess cash that want to buy the 8000 because they saw it in SKI magazine? Or people that enjoy the skis' natural snow performance and enjoy the cheap price tag of the 8000 and will look to recycle older bindings? Savvy expert skiers are not sold on systems and value choice, is my arm chair assessment of the systems market. Whereas less savvy varied skilled folks that don't invest a lot of time into quiver and gear choices are probably more tuned into the system stuff. Just my layman's best guess. You guys will obviously sell more of one than the other if you understand your target consumer and their needs rather than the preferences of a "dedicated" lot of internet forum posters.

 

[I_Bike_Alone]

don't forget the ease of mounting and adjustability. no holes drilled into the ski itself during the mounting process. But i prefer a flat ski if it matters, mainly due to weight concerns.

 

[deadheadskier]

This begs the question, do system binding HAVE to be so heavy? Again, never tried em, but this seems to be a common complaint.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Like other aspects of skiing technology system bindings are an advancement in that they don't just attach the boot to the ski they integrate them resulting in better balance and more powerful turns.

They are also an easy mount and it's a seconds adjustment to let your friend with a larger sole length use your skis.

As all can see they are becoming a larger segment each season.