From Utah: Park City Resorts Wish to Connect (UPDATED 2014 for ONE WASATCH Project)

[thetrailboss]

An Op-Ed in favor of One Wasatch:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/58530387-82/ski-resorts-became-french.html.csp

 

[thetrailboss]

The latest:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/1808614-155/ski-accord-mountain-resorts-skiing-wasatch

 

[darent]

TTB, so what is your best guess if One Wasatch will be a go at this point.

 

[itsnowjoke]

Rigghhhttttt... because if Canyons can't build simple connecting gondola then this is totally feasible.

And I believe the reason why the Canyons-Solitude gondola was shot down was because of the backlash from the backcountry enthusiasts who that thought saving a few acres of precious BC terrain was more valuable than eliminating an hours drive to the other side of the canyon. And the environmentalists didn't like it either....

Hey! My first post here! Just to clarify some issues. First, a bit about me. I'm a 50ish, lifelong skier. I grew up in Oregon and learned to ski at Hoodoo, then raced at Bachelor. I used to hike to glaciers to summer ski in the Cascades before the Palmer lift was installed at Timberline. Then I spent summers skiing at Timberline. I went on to ski and race at Montana State in Bozeman, where I ended up living at the bases of both Bridger Bowl and Big Sky -though not concurrently! It was droughty during the years I was there, I moved to Tahoe, where I spent over 20 years skiing everywhere, but mainly Squaw, Rose, and Diamond Peak. I now live at the base of Canyons Resort in Park City. My skiing pursuits have been augmented with a massive amount of climbing, backpacking, hiking, etc. It may be said that I'm the biggest fan of connecting the Utah resorts, but that's not true. But I AM it's biggest online fan, I've been a proponent of Skink and now One Wasatch for several years now. So enough about me!

The comment that I quoted above is not remotely accurate.

In order to build Skink, a 30 foot swath of Forest Service land needed to be obtained in order to build the lift. This was going to require an act of Congress. When Skilink was proposed, Talisker -the owners of both Canyons Resort and the land under Park City Mountain Resort- had no inkling that Park City Mountain Resort would fail to renew it's lease. This changed everything. Not only did Talisker own all of the land under PCMR, but they also own large swaths of land in Big Cottonwood Canyon connected to PCMR.

In short, Vail is leasing both Canyons and PCMR from Talisker. Phase one of One Wasatch is proposed to be completed this coming summer, with the connection of those two resorts. Park City Mountain Resort can now be linked to Brighton on private property. -No act of Congress required! Brighton is of course already linked to Solitude, and Deer Valley -which just bought Solitude- need only to drop it's boundary rope to be connected to Park City. In fact, in a recent interview the owner of Deer Valley stated that they worked with PCMR in designing the current lifts so the resorts could be connected one day. So five of the resorts could be connected in very short order. I am admittedly a bit weak on my knowledge of the Solitude / Alta connection, but understand that it should be easy as well.

Now to address the backlash from the backcountry and environmental enthusiasts: Yes, there is some. And they are extremely vocal, angry, and well-organized. But they don't count for a significant fraction of those who support One Wasatch. Most folks don't relate to those who would rather hike up the hill to ski it rather than ride lifts. And the arguments they use are mostly based on the fear of the unknown rather than substantiative fact. Most folks get that. I partake in backcountry skiing, (yeah, sometimes I'd rather hike than ride lifts) and so do many of my ski partners. Most -but not all- are in favor of One Wasatch. In fact, I'm actually surprised at how many are, given that I think I'm going to get a negative reaction from someone I haven't seen in a while. -But I don't. Most favor an interconnect!

One Wasatch has the potential to link seven world-class ski resorts by using only five lifts. We have the opportunity to create what could arguably be the greatest ski resort on the planet, combined with the greatest snow on earth. And that's why I'm for it! www.onewasatch.com

 

[ss20]

I wanna believe it. I wanna move out to Sandy, UT someday. Get a pass to Alta/Snowbird, and have easy access to Park City. Supporters may be strong, but opposition is usually stronger. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Welcome to the forum, and how the hell did you hear about AZ if you live in Utah?!

 

[thetrailboss]

I wanna believe it. I wanna move out to Sandy, UT someday. Get a pass to Alta/Snowbird, and have easy access to Park City. Supporters may be strong, but opposition is usually stronger. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Welcome to the forum, and how the hell did you hear about AZ if you live in Utah?!

I work in Sandy. There are some nice neighborhoods there and access is great.


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[thetrailboss]

TTB, so what is your best guess if One Wasatch will be a go at this point.

I dunno. It's not a new issue. There is interest between the areas...to some degree. And it sounds like some opposition groups might be softening up. PC and Canyons will connect as soon as this summer. That leaves two connections really (PCMR/DV to Brighton; Brighton to Alta).


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[thetrailboss]

From Utah: Park City Resorts Wish to Connect (UPDATED 2014 for ONE WASATCH Pr...

Another interesting thought: Ski Link is dead. I wonder if Talisker was trying to buy Solitude and backed off when POWDR handed PCMR back to them? Wouldn't it be interesting if another result of the Talisker/POWDR lawsuit was that OneWasatch comes about? As I said it's closer now with an inevitable PCMR/Canyons link.


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[RISkier]

I'm curious if all the resorts get linked what will happen to the "ski only" policies at Deer Valley and Alta?

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm curious if all the resorts get linked what will happen to the "ski only" policies at Deer Valley and Alta?

DV won't change; Alta has implied that it may reconsider.


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[moguler6]

I'm scared of what the 7 mountain 1-day ticket is going to cost?

I'm definitely a fan of the connections. As they sit, I will never ski PCMR, Canyons, or DV again. If they're all connected, I might pop over to hit a couple things or it could be fun to tour them all when the conditions aren't great.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm scared of what the 7 mountain 1-day ticket is going to cost?

I'm definitely a fan of the connections. As they sit, I will never ski PCMR, Canyons, or DV again. If they're all connected, I might pop over to hit a couple things or it could be fun to tour them all when the conditions aren't great.

Honestly though nobody is going to buy such ticket. It is not feasible. By the time one rides all the way over to Snowbird from PC they will have to turn around and go back.

 

[trackbiker]

By the time one rides all the way over to Snowbird from PC they will have to turn around and go back.

That's why I don't get the whole big push for this thing. You can't really ski any of those areas in one day. Will a lot of people really use the interconnection? The areas really aren't that far apart that you couldn't just ski one area one day and drive or take a shuttle to another for the next day. I think a joint ticket with a free shuttle between areas would be a better and less costly idea.

 

[thetrailboss]

That's why I don't get the whole big push for this thing. You can't really ski any of those areas in one day. Will a lot of people really use the interconnection? The areas really aren't that far apart that you couldn't just ski one area one day and drive or take a shuttle to another for the next day. I think a joint ticket with a free shuttle between areas would be a better and less costly idea.

That is very true. I think that it works for areas that are adjacent to each other and thus more feasible.

But let's get right down to what this is about: marketing. Whistler is awesome, but part of its cache is that it is so big.

 

[DoublePlanker]

If you've been to Europe, you would understand why this could be a spectacular idea. There really is no better place to stay In Utah than Park City. There is just so much more flexibility to choose where to ski if you can jump on a lift or lifts. Consider a group or family with mixed abilities. In my case, I would much rather prefer to ski Alta/Snowbird. But family members of friends may prefer Deer Valley or Park City. If they are interconnected and the cost is reasonable, I could fairly easily decide at any moment during the ski morning, to go over to another POD by myself or with a subset of the group. Without the interconnect, everybody has to commit to skiing in 1 place for the entire day.

What I love about Whistler is you literally do not get in a car for the entire week. You still have to take feeder lifts to get to the terrain from the base. But that is preferable to getting in a car and driving for an hour.

 

[trackbiker]

I agree on the marketing aspect. Even if they don't use it Americans want the biggest of everything.
Europe is a whole different animal. While they have transfer lifts they are not anything like what is planned for One Wasatch.

 

[moguler6]

Consider a group or family with mixed abilities. In my case, I would much rather prefer to ski Alta/Snowbird. But family members of friends may prefer Deer Valley or Park City. If they are interconnected and the cost is reasonable, I could fairly easily decide at any moment during the ski morning, to go over to another POD by myself or with a subset of the group. Without the interconnect, everybody has to commit to skiing in 1 place for the entire day.

What I love about Whistler is you literally do not get in a car for the entire week. You still have to take feeder lifts to get to the terrain from the base. But that is preferable to getting in a car and driving for an hour.

For these exact reasons. Ski a few runs with friends and family to keep them happy and time to go hit the good stuff. I'm always driving around to ski L/B Cottonwoods and usually irritate whomever I'm on the trip with by the end of the stay because I never ski with them. It's exactly what I love about Whistler. Keeps the masses happy but also has things to go scare myself on.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

That's why I don't get the whole big push for this thing. You can't really ski any of those areas in one day. Will a lot of people really use the interconnection? The areas really aren't that far apart that you couldn't just ski one area one day and drive or take a shuttle to another for the next day. I think a joint ticket with a free shuttle between areas would be a better and less costly idea.

Evaluating OneWasatch through the lens of the ability to ski all 7 resorts in one day is silly. As a practical matter, very few people will want to do that outside of some sort of self-flagellating ego trip. What will be tremendously interesting is the opportunity to ski both LCC and BCC in the same day via a quick ride up Grizzly. Or the ability of skiers based in PC to get over into BCC where there is more snow and better terrain. When you're only going one canyon over, it's a relatively quick trip in, and easy trip back out to where you started. BCC resorts will be the big winners in this, IMHO, b/c they off opportunities to go in both directions.

 

[CoolMike]

When this is done I'm certainly coming back to Utah. Stay at Park City and ride over to the little and big CCs. Even if it takes 4 or five long lifts and four or five trails its better than driving up to Snowbird. Putting your boots on in your room, hopping a quick shuttle to the nearest lift, and riding to Snowbird sounds awesome. Packing your car full of stuff and navigating the traffic and parking at Snowbird is less awesome.

Plus, I'd love to take a really quick peak at the other resorts in the area as I only got a chance to ride around PCMR and Snowbird. First day at Snowbird was almost life changing it was so good!

 

[thetrailboss]

Evaluating OneWasatch through the lens of the ability to ski all 7 resorts in one day is silly. As a practical matter, very few people will want to do that outside of some sort of self-flagellating ego trip. What will be tremendously interesting is the opportunity to ski both LCC and BCC in the same day via a quick ride up Grizzly. Or the ability of skiers based in PC to get over into BCC where there is more snow and better terrain. When you're only going one canyon over, it's a relatively quick trip in, and easy trip back out to where you started. BCC resorts will be the big winners in this, IMHO, b/c they off opportunities to go in both directions.

Spot on TW. When you look at the skier numbers, the PC areas and LCC areas get a lot of traffic. So having BCC absorb some of that will help.