FTO News Item: Rumors Fly Regarding Pending Sale of ASC Resorts

[molecan]

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1553

 

[Warp Daddy]

Let the Games begin

 

[Vortex]

This has been going on a while. I have heard Mt snow combined with Attitash. I have heard K and Pico together. Don't want to spread rumours I don't have proof of. I think most agree something is up. I'll wait until its official.

 

[Greg]

I trust that Marc Guido would have only published that if it's just about fact. He's a stand up guy and wouldn't risk FTO credibility otherwise. I guess the discussion should head towards what do you think these new companies will do for the respective resorts? Peak Resorts has obviously done a nice job with Crotched based on my oberservations. I don't know much about Powdr Corporation. Any comments? Weird to think Snow and Killington will be owned by different companies. The fate of the All for One is also in question, I'd imagine.

 

[Vortex]

I think it was done was well. I'll let others who know more say more. The linc and info was interesting and worth while. Props.

 

[First Tracks]

Thanks, Greg. Let's face it, it's not a done deal until it's a done deal, so until that happens it does fit the "rumor and innuendo" category. I was very careful to craft the story in that context. That said, I cross-referenced it with several solid sources before deciding to go ahead and publish it.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Yeah...I heard about this over the weekend, but didn't want to mention it until I knew for sure. Worried about the A41 pass.

 

[SkiDog]

Yeah...I heard about this over the weekend, but didn't want to mention it until I knew for sure. Worried about the A41 pass.

I wouldnt worry about that....this has been a proven winner in terms of sales and far exceeded what the pricier $1000+ season passes used to bring in...you'll likely see it go up a bit, but i'd bet they offer up something. Really what are they losing in the deal Mt Sneaux?

I HOPE with all HOPE that this really happens..

M

 

[Greg]

I wouldnt worry about that....this has been a proven winner in terms of sales and far exceeded what the pricier $1000+ season passes used to bring in...you'll likely see it go up a bit, but i'd bet they offer up something. Really what are they losing in the deal Mt Sneaux?

The point is if this is true you won't see a single pass that includes all the current resorts.

 

[andyzee]

As I've said on Kzone, becareful what you hope for. People are always putting down ASC and maybe for a good reason. But I believe the days of skiing until June are over. I also believe that whoever buys Killington, may shorten the season even more. As far as snow making goes, in all fairness, how much of a better job without investment can anyone do than Killington has done in this year?

 

[SkiDog]

The point is if this is true you won't see a single pass that includes all the current resorts.

I agree....they'd likely have others to make up for the loss.....the point I was making is that its likely that you'll still get a pretty good deal on a season pass...

M

 

[millerm277]

As I've said on Kzone, becareful what you hope for. People are always putting down ASC and maybe for a good reason. But I believe the days of skiing until June are over. I also believe that whoever buys Killington, may shorten the season even more. As far as snow making goes, in all fairness, how much of a better job without investment can anyone do than Killington has done in this year?

Well, they've done a pretty good job so far, but the lack of any attempt at opening the real trails there (Lower Ovation, DF), and instead just putting ridiculous amounts of snow on Stupidstar and OL, are big problems in my book.


However, the biggest problem is just what you said, no investment.....ASC has very limited amounts of money, and is likely to for a long time to come.

 

[BeanoNYC]

I agree....they'd likely have others to make up for the loss.....the point I was making is that its likely that you'll still get a pretty good deal on a season pass...

M

My fear is that I'll have to make a decision between a pass with MS(Closer/less terrain) or Killington (Farther away/more terrain) It's gonna suck. Nothing will ever come close to the A41 pass.

 

[ALLSKIING]

My fear is that I'll have to make a decision between a pass with MS(Closer/less terrain) or Killington (Farther away/more terrain) It's gonna suck. Nothing will ever come close to the A41 pass.

I'm in the same boat. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[riverc0il]

As I've said on Kzone, becareful what you hope for. People are always putting down ASC and maybe for a good reason. But I believe the days of skiing until June are over. I also believe that whoever buys Killington, may shorten the season even more.

skiing until june lift serviced is definitely long gone (and for very legitimate reason, imo, unless a future owner can figure out how to make it profitable, perhaps a may-june season pass that even full season pass holders would have to pay for?) but i don't see how kmart could possibly shorten the season much more even with a different owner. bush and bretton proved last year that kmart is no longer a stand out regarding number of days in operation. kmart is status quo currently and would stand to loose customers if they pulled back much more. if you are worried about the future of kmart if they do leave ASC, i think a number of loyal sugarbush customers may pipe in about post ASC changes. a western based corporation is a lot different than rich second home owners local to the MRV that love their mountain. but i could only foresee good changes for kmart pending this is not just rumor. getting rid of the A41 actually makes the place more appealing in my eyes. ASC milked that to death and it didn't save them, it only created a race to the bottom, and they were the only one's in the race as new england season pass prices seemed to have stayed firm generally despite the pressure from the A41 deal. ASC can have the river, hopefully they will eventually free the loaf as well. regardless if this happens or not, i think ski area owners and managers can learn a lot by looking at this company's history.

 

[andyzee]

skiing until june lift serviced is definitely long gone (and for very legitimate reason, imo, unless a future owner can figure out how to make it profitable, perhaps a may-june season pass that even full season pass holders would have to pay for?) but i don't see how kmart could possibly shorten the season much more even with a different owner. bush and bretton proved last year that kmart is no longer a stand out regarding number of days in operation. kmart is status quo currently and would stand to loose customers if they pulled back much more. if you are worried about the future of kmart if they do leave ASC, i think a number of loyal sugarbush customers may pipe in about post ASC changes. a western based corporation is a lot different than rich second home owners local to the MRV that love their mountain. but i could only foresee good changes for kmart pending this is not just rumor. getting rid of the A41 actually makes the place more appealing in my eyes. ASC milked that to death and it didn't save them, it only created a race to the bottom, and they were the only one's in the race as new england season pass prices seemed to have stayed firm generally despite the pressure from the A41 deal. ASC can have the river, hopefully they will eventually free the loaf as well. regardless if this happens or not, i think ski area owners and managers can learn a lot by looking at this company's history.

I as many others don't believe that Killington added to ASC's demise, if anything it is there cash cow. As far as the season length is concerned, no, they couldn't shorten it much more, but a closing in April wouldn't be so far fetched. The only reason I even mention this is the fact that so many long time regulars are yelling for the demise of ASC and Killington's return to it's glory days of October-June skiing, you're correct, not happening and with good reason. But I would still be weary of new owners for other reasons, I hate to see Killington run "properly" and be turned into another Okemo with tons of groomers. I'd hate to see development to the point where it's turned into another Stratton. And yes, I'd probably hate to see and interconnect between Pico and Killington. I would probably visit Pico a lot more, but so would thousands of others.

 

[madskier6]

the point I was making is that its likely that you'll still get a pretty good deal on a season pass...M

Why do you think this? To my knowledge, ASC was the only resort owner that offered such cheap season passes for major mountains. I understand they did this, in part, to generate cash-flow in the offseason to pay the interest on all the debt they have. Other resort owners don't have as much debt as ASC does.

I did a quick check on season pass prices at the major mountains that Powdr & Peaks currently own. For all of their major mountains that are comparable in size to Killington & Mt. Snow, the season pass prices are in the $850 - $1,000 range. Some resorts had cheaper pass prices but they were smaller in size and so do not compare with KMart, Sneaux and Attitash. So these owners are not currently offering cheap season passes. Why would they start doing it now?

 

[riverc0il]

word, andyzee. i am surprised any one would think kmart would ever go back to the glory days of early/late season openings/closings. good to point that out to those that think a new owner would be the mountain's salvation.

madskier6 is spot on with his comments. i would expect to see kmart season pass prices go up significantly compared to current A41 levels with new ownership. perhaps we will see a corresponding drop in day passes since the current ASC/Kmart MO is to make season passes so cheap and day passes so expensive that it is a no brainer to get a pass if you plan to ski Kmart or ASC at least a few times. again, as a non-pass holder, i can only see this as good news and may put kmart back on the list of places i am willing to visit.

 

[thebigo]

I have mixed feelings on this whole deal. It has been tough to watch the decline of killington over the years and that can only be blamed on ASC. On the other hand this could be a watch out what you wish for scenario, where the mountain will see tremendous investment and i wont be able to afford a pass anymore.

Alpine meadows (another powdr resort) was the home of a couple of my best days on skis. The place has a laid back locals feel, moderately priced tickets and modern infastructure. I just hope these guys understand that running an eastern resort is a completely different animal. Rather than dedicating your efforts getting people to vacation at your mountain you are targetting the day skier/condo owner and constantly battling the weather.

On the other hand if the rumor was that peak resorts was purchasing kmart rather than snow/attitash i would be ecstatic. Peak resorts has set crotched as a snowmaking leader, they are aggressive with their opening date and are actively expanding terrain. I could only imagine what they could do with a real mountain and besides a k/pico/crotched pass would be perfect for those of us in southern nh/northern mass.

One more thing is that I have no doubt a new owner would extend the season. Kmart blew enough snow to open the glades weeks before they opened this year. K management posted on kzone that they ran every possible scenario to open early season. All they need is the capital for a lift reconfiguration.

One final point is that this discussion has focussed mainly on kmart, it is odd to me that Peak Resorts would abandon their business plan this drastically by purchasing attitash and snow. All of their existing resorts are relatively small and near metrolpolitan areas, I seem to remember they were also considering temple at the time they purchased crotched.

 

[riverc0il]

i think peak resorts would be in for severe culture shock by purchasing one of the big boys. these large destination resorts are completely different ball games from what peak resorts has done best, which is high capacity and high efficiency local and learn to ski small hills close to population centers. they would have to deal with real estate, destination skiers, mountains that don't fit their MO, and a host of other issues. i welcome change but the peak boys will need to alter their approach to run a place like snow, i would think.