Gear Guides = pointless / little credibility?

[Puck it]

These things are absolutely useless, even more so this year.

 

[Geoff]

These things are absolutely useless, even more so this year.

Not "absolutely" useless. They at least give you the brands, basic dimensions, and MSRP pricing. ...and you don't have to suffer through all that awful ski manufacturer web site Flash crapola to get the information. If I'm shopping for a ski with a specific width and natural turn radius, I at least know which ones I want to try.

 

[snowmonster]

Not "absolutely" useless. They at least give you the brands, basic dimensions, and MSRP pricing. ...and you don't have to suffer through all that awful ski manufacturer web site Flash crapola to get the information. If I'm shopping for a ski with a specific width and natural turn radius, I at least know which ones I want to try.

^ Agree. I like the convenience of having the different skis in the same page and comparing them. Beats having to make a spreadsheet of what's out there and doing it on your own. When I look at gear guides, I tune into the tip/waist/tail dimensions (especially waist), available lengths, and stiffness. The write-ups and ratings are subjective at best and make for good reading when you have downtime like on the subway. It also helps the ski jones on a warm August afternoon. However, when a number of reviewers universally praise a ski for a given application, they're probably on to something and you should listen.

Anyway, with an idea of the basic dimensions and stiffness, you can make an educated guess as to which skis are right for you then you go on to demo (as a lot have suggested). I have to confess that I have never demoed a ski I bought and have always relied on a combination of gear guides, shop talk and internet reviews to make my selections (there's always someone out there who's just about the same height, weight, skiing style and ability who's tried out the skis you want). I have also stuck to one brand of skis all throughout so I have developed a familiarity with the product line. I sort of don't feel lost and kind of know what the reviews are talking about. I do not recommend this though. It's part of my quirky personality. =)

It's also funny also how a ski jumps from one category to another even if nothing's been changed from the year before except the topsheet. Take for example the Rossi Z9. One year, Ski tested it in the All-Mountain Expert: Speed category. The next year, with a new topsheet, it was downgraded to the Cruiser category. Huh? One year it's an expert race ski and the next year it's something for intermediates. Of course, the Z11 was entered into the AME: Speed category that year. If you want an even better mind bender, go look at what Ski and Skiing said about Kastle skis in last year's issues. I'm sure you'll get different takes. If I remember right, the tenor of all Kastle reviews last year was "Kastle is back from the dead and they're back in a big way with these amazing skis."

 

[thetrailboss]

It's also funny also how a ski jumps from one category to another even if nothing's been changed from the year before except the topsheet. Take for example the Rossi Z9. One year, Ski tested it in the All-Mountain Expert: Speed category. The next year, with a new topsheet, it was downgraded to the Cruiser category. Huh? One year it's an expert race ski and the next year it's something for intermediates. Of course, the Z11 was entered into the AME: Speed category that year. If you want an even better mind bender, go look at what Ski and Skiing said about Kastle skis in last year's issues. I'm sure you'll get different takes. If I remember right, the tenor of all Kastle reviews last year was "Kastle is back from the dead and they're back in a big way with these amazing skis."

+ 1. That's what I was saying. The manufacturer dictates which category the ski gets tested in and that can change from magazine to magazine, and season to season.

 

[mattchuck2]

I don't even bother to read Ski or Skiing magazine cause they are crap...all the gear info I need I can get on the net..

Who the hell is giving you information on "the net?"

It could be some beginner, some shill, or some schmuck. I at least like to hear what some pros, high level instructors and ski patrollers have to say (Ski and Skiing Magazine used to tell you that kind of stuff, but this year, not so much).

 

[RootDKJ]

Part of the problem, as i see it, is the Ski Category descriptions used my the magazines don't even come close to some of the categories used by the (online) retailers.

For the average person, I could see how it could be extremely confusing trying to figure out which ski to purchase.

 

[Geoff]

Part of the problem, as i see it, is the Ski Category descriptions used my the magazines don't even come close to some of the categories used by the (online) retailers.

For the average person, I could see how it could be extremely confusing trying to figure out which ski to purchase.

There's "all mountain" further divided by the amount of time you spend on the groomers. There's "park rat". There's "spandex dude".

What's confusing?

It's not like an intermediate skidder is going to walk up and buy a 120mm rockered powder machine.

 

[tjf67]

Part of the problem, as i see it, is the Ski Category descriptions used my the magazines don't even come close to some of the categories used by the (online) retailers.

For the average person, I could see how it could be extremely confusing trying to figure out which ski to purchase.

Both mags have charts to bring you to what type ski you should be looking at. It was pretty simple and it brought me where I should be. You all should admit it they are good mags. I dont know of another place you can get them laid out like that so you can narrow it down to two or three.

 

[tjf67]

Who the hell is giving you information on "the net?"

It could be some beginner, some shill, or some schmuck. I at least like to hear what some pros, high level instructors and ski patrollers have to say (Ski and Skiing Magazine used to tell you that kind of stuff, but this year, not so much).

+1

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Exactly. I agree with the consensus on the crediblity of ski testing. A few years ago when I was buying skis I talked with a local reputable shop about the tests and he shared some secrets.

First, not every ski is demoed. Manufacturers, believe it or not, have to pay for the honor to have their skis tested. So they will only send a few models. When they are tested, the skis are covered up so that the skier doesn't know what he/she is skiing on. .

Let me clear up some misconceptions here...not as someone who is guessing or heard from someone who's a reliable source who heard from someone else....I'll clear it up as someone who's been to the tests the last two years and knows firsthand.

Vendors do not have to PAY to have skis tested...they have to pay to be there, travel, lodging, and in most cases, lift tickets. Vendors will send as many models as they can...but the parameters (waist widths, target consumer, ski type...park, powder, all mtn, etc) are determined by the magazine. Only Skiing Magazine requires that the skis be covered up...the rest of the mags let the colors fly.

Second, the manufacturers know that these demos are not really too important. So what they do is send skis and then have the skis demoed in different categories to see how they handle. For example, they might have their twin tips demoed for high speed cruising or something like that just for the hell of it. They want to see where the ski's weakness is, not necessarily its strength. .

No, the vendors feel that these reviews are quite important. Vendors are only allowed to enter a ski in one category...only one that allows one ski in multiple categories is Ski Press...and typically only race skis...a mens lenght and womens length. There are far fewer categories in ski/skiing than vendors have skis...so it makes sense to get as many skis tested as possible, not to send one ski into as many categories as possible.

T

he magazines arbitrarily make up the categories and the ski manufacturers will just toss in whatever skis they want...not necessarily the best ones. They don't have any say...the categories that the magazines make up are pretty random at times and one magazine may say that a ski is a "freeride" model while another might say, "big mountain expert." Likewise, a manufacturer may have a ski demoed in the "freeride category" in one magazine and in the "intermediate" category in another. .

The mags spend hours trying to create what they feel are the right categories...and vendors try their hardest to put the right ski into each category...they're competing against the other vendors, why would they just toss some random ski in there?

Nothing replaces an actual demo. The ski that I liked the best last season at the demo day was a high speed expert cruiser ski, but it handled very well in the bumps as well. You wouldn't know that from a magazine test.

Totally agree with you here.

Some other info:

Powder Magazine doesn't do a "test" so much as a bro fest...vendors bring their best freeride/powder skis to Jackson Hole and spend 4 days skiing with the Powder staff...laps in the backcountry, etc. Its real world skiing...the testers spend half a day with each vendor and rotate through the vendors. The other tests usually involve one run, maybe two.

The testers for ski/skiing are former NCAA racers, US team members, PSIA elite...a few are retailers...but all have a solid skiing pedigree. Testers for Powder are mostly their staff...editors, writers, photographers...and some very solid skiers themselves. Freeskier uses their staff and supplemented them with some freeride athletes. The testers range in age from early 20s to their 50s...they aren't all 5'10 and 150...they range from guys over 200lbs to ladies who barely break 100lbs with feet so small they barely fit into demo bindings. They run a pretty wide range...but the one thing they have in common is they are all solid skiers.
Their feelings and impressions on these skis may not echo your own...unless you're skiing 60+ days a year and were an elite NCAA racer or PSIA demo team member. So, take them with a grain of salt...but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The best bet is to find a consumer demo event and try for yourself

 

[deadheadskier]

all makes perfect sense Eastcoast. But do you agree with my perception that the rankings are a joke and somewhat pointless and the magazines would probably be better not 'scoring' the skis?

I know that if I was a manager at Kastle, I'd have a beef with Ski/Skiing to have one of the magazines report my model as the best in the category and the other magazine report it as the worst. Different people have different gear preferences, but to have such a discrepency over a large sample of testers doesn't make much sense.

 

[tarponhead]

The best bet is to find a consumer demo event and try for yourself

What is the best way to go about doing just that?

 

[wa-loaf]

What is the best way to go about doing just that?

Check with your local mtn and they probably have one scheduled. There's also a demo thread that will likely be revived soon. Some shops sponsor them too.

 

[wa-loaf]

Oh and everyone stop being so serious. The ski mags are for "entertainment purposes only". Check out the new gear, look at the pretty pictures and get pumped for the season.

 

[tjf67]

Let me clear up some misconceptions here...not as someone who is guessing or heard from someone who's a reliable source who heard from someone else....I'll clear it up as someone who's been to the tests the last two years and knows firsthand.

Vendors do not have to PAY to have skis tested...they have to pay to be there, travel, lodging, and in most cases, lift tickets. Vendors will send as many models as they can...but the parameters (waist widths, target consumer, ski type...park, powder, all mtn, etc) are determined by the magazine. Only Skiing Magazine requires that the skis be covered up...the rest of the mags let the colors fly.




No, the vendors feel that these reviews are quite important. Vendors are only allowed to enter a ski in one category...only one that allows one ski in multiple categories is Ski Press...and typically only race skis...a mens lenght and womens length. There are far fewer categories in ski/skiing than vendors have skis...so it makes sense to get as many skis tested as possible, not to send one ski into as many categories as possible.

T

The mags spend hours trying to create what they feel are the right categories...and vendors try their hardest to put the right ski into each category...they're competing against the other vendors, why would they just toss some random ski in there?



Totally agree with you here.

Some other info:

Powder Magazine doesn't do a "test" so much as a bro fest...vendors bring their best freeride/powder skis to Jackson Hole and spend 4 days skiing with the Powder staff...laps in the backcountry, etc. Its real world skiing...the testers spend half a day with each vendor and rotate through the vendors. The other tests usually involve one run, maybe two.

The testers for ski/skiing are former NCAA racers, US team members, PSIA elite...a few are retailers...but all have a solid skiing pedigree. Testers for Powder are mostly their staff...editors, writers, photographers...and some very solid skiers themselves. Freeskier uses their staff and supplemented them with some freeride athletes. The testers range in age from early 20s to their 50s...they aren't all 5'10 and 150...they range from guys over 200lbs to ladies who barely break 100lbs with feet so small they barely fit into demo bindings. They run a pretty wide range...but the one thing they have in common is they are all solid skiers.
Their feelings and impressions on these skis may not echo your own...unless you're skiing 60+ days a year and were an elite NCAA racer or PSIA demo team member. So, take them with a grain of salt...but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The best bet is to find a consumer demo event and try for yourself

SMACK!!!! haha good info.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

all makes perfect sense Eastcoast. But do you agree with my perception that the rankings are a joke and somewhat pointless and the magazines would probably be better not 'scoring' the skis?.

They're only a joke when your skis didn't make the cut :wink:

I know that if I was a manager at Kastle, I'd have a beef with Ski/Skiing to have one of the magazines report my model as the best in the category and the other magazine report it as the worst. Different people have different gear preferences, but to have such a discrepency over a large sample of testers doesn't make much sense.

Those Kastles MADE both magazines...so they weren't best in test to worst in test, just Best of the Best and Least Best of the Best...the "worst" didn't make the magazine.

But yes, it is somewhat silly to see skis that make it in Skiing not make it in Ski...but that's only because we know they are both owned by Bonnier Corp...lots of folks out there don't know that.

Like I said, grain of salt. They do try hard to come up with scores that make sense...and their based on at least a dozen or so testers individual score cards...so its the average score for the ski, not one testers score. The magazines and the vendors spend a lot of time, effort and money to execute the tests...its pretty obvious from this thread that everyone's got some more work to do! When I was in retail I'd always try to get folks to demo skis before they bought them....its the only real way to find out how they will work for you, for your style, for your typical trail conditions, etc. You can't believe everything you read...or hear on cable tv or find on the internet...

 

[bvibert]

Let me clear up some misconceptions here...not as someone who is guessing or heard from someone who's a reliable source who heard from someone else....I'll clear it up as someone who's been to the tests the last two years and knows firsthand.

Thanks for filling us in with some actual information.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Thanks for filling us in with some actual information.

meh...I just quoted all that crap from some post on epic. ;-)

 

[Philpug]

Vendors do not have to PAY to have skis tested...they have to pay to be there, travel, lodging, and in most cases, lift tickets. Vendors will send as many models as they can...but the parameters (waist widths, target consumer, ski type...park, powder, all mtn, etc) are determined by the magazine. Only Skiing Magazine requires that the skis be covered up...the rest of the mags let the colors fly.

Not completely accurate. For the 08-09 reviews, SkiPress required $1500,00 from the manufacturer to get the skis into their reviews. A portion of that $1500.00 went to advertising dollars. SkiPress gave the manufacturer the categories and they could submit ONE pair per category (but could submit the same ski to more than one category).

 

[thetrailboss]

Thanks for filling us in with some actual information.

+ 1. It is always good to get firsthand information.