Getting Over On Ski Areas

[darent]

DMC- great kid rock video!!

 

[darent]

Yes, it's easy to duplicate a bar-code, but that doesn't mean it'll necessarily be useful. The systems that I know about won't accept the same bar code again within a certain amount of time (usually the average time it takes to get up the lift and come back down), so if you duplicate your buddies pass and you both try to ski at the same time then one of you won't be able to get up the lift (if the scanners are doing their job correctly). Is it fool proof, no, but it does make things that much harder for the thieves.

won't scanners pick up the fact that the same bar code is being recorded at two different lifts on the mountain in too short of a time. they track your movements by bar code for mountain management info.

 

[marcski]

This is where one of the closest comparisons would be the theft of cable service. It doesn't cost the cable company any more when another person splices into their network (until recently, there wasn't even a sure-fire way for them to tell). It's illegal because it has to be to protect the business interests of the service provider, even though it doesn't directly cost them anything. Of course, one everyone is "stealing" the service and nobody's paying for it, things break down pretty fast.

Is it technically illegal to ski down without a pass at most places? Or just to ride up?


aaron

You buy a lift pass not a trail pass, right? They don't check on the way down anyway!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

light beers are like sex in a canoe...fking close to water

ahahahahaha

Yes - we made baskets and quilts...

steezy

hemp??

no no no

 

[RootDKJ]

This is where one of the closest comparisons would be the theft of cable service. It doesn't cost the cable company any more when another person splices into their network (until recently, there wasn't even a sure-fire way for them to tell). It's illegal because it has to be to protect the business interests of the service provider, even though it doesn't directly cost them anything. Of course, one everyone is "stealing" the service and nobody's paying for it, things break down pretty fast.

Is it technically illegal to ski down without a pass at most places? Or just to ride up?


aaron

It costs plenty. If cable theft were not so wide spread, there wouldn't be a need to maintain a full blown team of auditors and 'security' staff. So lets say for a 500,000 customer system, there's probabily a team of around 10 auditors. After salary, OT, benefits, trucks & fuel, 401k, and discounted stock options, the total expense to the business is probabily $120,000 per auditor annualy. That's $1.2 Million dollars each year to run down theft of service. That cost is passed on to all customers.

I believe your lift ticket is just for the ride up as you could always hike up and ride down for free.

 

[scootertig]

It costs plenty. If cable theft were not so wide spread, there wouldn't be a need to maintain a full blown team of auditors and 'security' staff. So lets say for a 500,000 customer system, there's probabily a team of around 10 auditors. After salary, OT, benefits, trucks & fuel, 401k, and discounted stock options, the total expense to the business is probabily $120,000 per auditor annualy. That's $1.2 Million dollars each year to run down theft of service. That cost is passed on to all customers.

First - I don't want to turn this into a cable theft thread, and secondly - I'm not defending cable theft.

That said, your argument is faulty. The theft itself doesn't "cost" anything. The expense of preventing the theft may be high, but that's a result of the attempts to limit the theft. In the same way, "stealing" lift service doesn't ACTUALLY cost anything, since as someone pointed out, the lift operation, etc, are sunk costs. The systems/people put in place to stop the theft are expensive, and do drive up the costs, but are also sunk costs. It costs the same to look for theft whether nobody's stealing or everyone's stealing.

My point, and it was echoing another poster, was that theft of goods has a concrete impact on costs, as it costs money to replace what was stolen. Theft of service is more ambiguous, and really can only have a indirect cost associations (in the form of prevention efforts). The actual theft of the service itself does not cost anyone anything.


aaron

 

[MadPadraic]

I would not jump on a lift without paying. As for bringing beer into the lodge. I do at times do it. When it costs 6 dollars for a 16once draft of coors light i feel the hill is stealing from me. I agree they need to make money, in my case over here the problem could be solved if they dropped the price a few bucks and put a few more or at least quicker bar tenders on the line. I have left many times because I can not get a beer. I am known to down 6 beers in an hour after skiing. Thats 36 bucks before tip. That is not my idea of a fair deal.

Funny. I think I pay $4.50 for a microbrew at Cannon.

 

[MadPadraic]

I agree..most skiers/riders seem to be at least middle class..if not more affluent but they can be hella cheap. As for theft of services..I've never snuck onto a lift with no ticket but I've skied on a morning ticket an extra hour or two...and sold my ticket to someone in the parking lot when I've bailed out at Noon. It's funny though..people sneak food into the movies..people sneak food into amusement parks..people sneak food onto planes...but with some sports like Golf..nobody brown bags it in the clubhouse after the round.

Sneaking food onto a plane isn't even remotely theft of services. I've never flown on an airline that banned food.

 

[MadPadraic]

Yeah, long trail makes a damn fine beer. I wish more micros were put in cans for easy transport. I just picked up a twelve pack of fat tire in 12 oz cans.

It's not a micro...but Old Speckled Hen comes in a can. Yummy.

 

[Moe Ghoul]

First - I don't want to turn this into a cable theft thread, and secondly - I'm not defending cable theft.

That said, your argument is faulty. The theft itself doesn't "cost" anything. The expense of preventing the theft may be high, but that's a result of the attempts to limit the theft. In the same way, "stealing" lift service doesn't ACTUALLY cost anything, since as someone pointed out, the lift operation, etc, are sunk costs. The systems/people put in place to stop the theft are expensive, and do drive up the costs, but are also sunk costs. It costs the same to look for theft whether nobody's stealing or everyone's stealing.

My point, and it was echoing another poster, was that theft of goods has a concrete impact on costs, as it costs money to replace what was stolen. Theft of service is more ambiguous, and really can only have a indirect cost associations (in the form of prevention efforts). The actual theft of the service itself does not cost anyone anything.


aaron

The cost is lost revenue. To say that there is no "cost" to poaching lift rides or unauthorized cable use is faulty. Taking that logic a further step, if there was no "cost" they might as well offer it free to everyone. The cost/benefit of additional security measures must be paying off. In other words, the "cost" of lost revenue without enforcement must be greater than the cost of enforcement and deterrence which adds up to more subscribers.

 

[Trekchick]

Sneaking food onto a plane isn't even remotely theft of services. I've never flown on an airline that banned food.

Most airlines encourage you to bring your own food. Especially since they don't provide food these days.

 

[MadPadraic]

That said, your argument is faulty. The theft itself doesn't "cost" anything. The expense of preventing the theft may be high, but that's a result of the attempts to limit the theft. In the same way, "stealing" lift service doesn't ACTUALLY cost anything, since as someone pointed out, the lift operation, etc, are sunk costs. The systems/people put in place to stop the theft are expensive, and do drive up the costs, but are also sunk costs. It costs the same to look for theft whether nobody's stealing or everyone's stealing.

My point, and it was echoing another poster, was that theft of goods has a concrete impact on costs, as it costs money to replace what was stolen. Theft of service is more ambiguous, and really can only have a indirect cost associations (in the form of prevention efforts). The actual theft of the service itself does not cost anyone anything.


aaron

I thin it is like cable theft, sneaking movie candy (or staying for a second show, etc), in the sense that all of these businesses are frequently perceived as price gauging, which changes the moral calculus for many people.

Second, it is wrong to say that using resort services has no impact because you are ignoring the marginal cost. Resorts make decisions on how many trails to cover, groom, and open. They have to decide how large a staff they need to operate on a given day and they have to decide how many lifts to run...so they have many marginal costs which are directly impacted by crowding.

 

[kingslug]

coors light, keystone light (i suspect most of them)=4.2%

regular beer=5%

I'm not too crazy about downing weak beer-seems like a waste.

Might as well drink water.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Most airlines encourage you to bring your own food. Especially since they don't provide food these days.

You can't bring your own beer though..or water

 

[severine]

You can't bring your own beer though..or water

You can bring your own water. Bring an empty bottle and fill it up from the water fountains after you go through security.

 

[Trekchick]

You can't bring your own beer though..or water

You can bring your own water. Bring an empty bottle and fill it up from the water fountains after you go through security.

What she said ^^^^^^^
It was Travel tip #1 I gave to Carrie when we did Abasin. Always take an empty bottle through security so you can fill it up at the water fountain.

Also......... You can take most beverages purchased at the airport on the plane.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

What she said ^^^^^^^
It was Travel tip #1 I gave to Carrie when we did Abasin. Always take an empty bottle through security so you can fill it up at the water fountain.

Also......... You can take most beverages purchased at the airport on the plane.

That is a good suggestion..I actually never thought of that..anyway the next flight I'm on..I'm gonna bring my George Foreman grill..and grill up some steeze..

 

[hardline]

That is a good suggestion..I actually never thought of that..anyway the next flight I'm on..I'm gonna bring my George Foreman grill..and grill up some steeze..

that would be some funny sh#@. would love to see the stewardess face when you whipped that puppy out.