Grooming good or evil?

[highpeaksdrifter]

IMO if you were to ask 100 skiers/riders if they like groomed trails, I estimate that about 80 will say they don’t. Of those 80 probably 60 are just talking out their cabooses and can’t really handle ungroomed terrain.

Now we have all seen this scenario; Saturday Trail Whatever at Mt. Whatever is perfect, lots of snow. Trail Whatever is very popular and sees a lot of traffic and gets all scraped off. No snow Saturday night so without grooming you start Sunday morning off with icy conditions. Is that really better?

Now someone might reply with, ski the sides where the snow was pushed. Dat the truth, but most of the skiing public can’t make short swing turns and will be skating all over the trail. They will have a bad time and not return.

Pow when I can get it, bumps, trees are all what I love, but saying that ski areas should not groom is not dealing with the realities of the business.

 

[Brettski]

Grooming is Good, except when it isn't.

 

[ctenidae]

Grooming is good, and a necessary evil.

I'll admit it- I like groomed trails. It's fun to be able to open up on a wide open smooth trail carving nice long turns. I'm not such a big fan of bumps and trees- too much work because I'm not very (any, really) good at them.

I like groomed trails,
And I cannot lie
Wide open spaces
Where you can let fly...

Ahem...Sorry.

 

[Greg]

Now someone might reply with, ski the sides where the snow was pushed.

I prefer ungroomed, bu tthe above works for me on the groomers. I also enjoy popping up and over the lip formed by groomers during deep snow conditions.

 

[dmc]

I prefer less grooming.. Understand the need for most to have groomed but I prefer - not so groomed...

Moguls, chopped up crud, ice, ridges and mounds... It's all good!

I cringe when I go to revisit a line from the day before thats been mowed down into oblivion so an intermediate can enjoy an expert trail thats over his head.....

Probably one of the reasons I love Hunter so much.. They tend to not groom their expert trails on the west side... So we can shape and develop lines..

 

[JimG.]

Evil. A necessary one, but evil just the same.

 

[Vortex]

I much prefer a groomed trail. The easier the snow is to turn in the better. Ya I may not be hard core. I just have more fun crusing at a good pace.

 

[dmc]

I much prefer a groomed trail. The easier the snow is to turn in the better. Ya I may not be hard core. I just have more fun crusing at a good pace.

It's not a question of hardcore.. I consider you hardcore..

It's just personal taste... I get bored cruising and like varied and difficult terrain...

 

[bvibert]

I'm not nearly as proficient on un-groomed stuff compared to groomers. I like both groomed and un-groomed about the same right now...

 

[awf170]

I hate skiing groomers i think it is so boring, unless it is an awsome designed trail like upper cannon or lynx at wildcat, which makes it fun. I'm a pretty bad off groomer skier, but i still find it really fun even if it beats the crap out of me. I also like skiing really sick stuff that scares me, even if the terrian isnt nice at all, like at wildcat 2 years ago i would ski this little section of river bed that was rock hard snow and had tons of nasty ice drops, it was too scary to even link turns, but i still liked it because of it being scary(I think i have a problem :wink: ) Alright i think i got off topic. I still stand by my statement that the ski areas should do it like outwest. Groom almost all blues and greens, and leave almost every black ungroomed. I know this cannot work for every ski area but its a hope

 

[Greg]

I'm a pretty bad off groomer skier, but i still find it really fun even if it beats the crap out of me. I also like skiing really sick stuff that scares me, even if the terrian isnt nice at all, like at wildcat 2 years ago i would ski this little section of river bed that was rock hard snow and had tons of nasty ice drops, it was too scary to even link turns, but i still liked it because of it being scary(I think i have a problem :wink: )

I totally know where you're coming from, Austin. I don't know that I get "scared" when skiing anymore, but I like to challenge myself to keep the excitement level high.

 

[dmc]

I don't know that I get "scared" when skiing anymore, but I like to challenge myself to keep the excitement level high.

So - Tuckermans this spring?

 

[awf170]

I don't know that I get "scared" when skiing anymore, but I like to challenge myself to keep the excitement level high.

So - Tuckermans this spring?

Im pretty sure im getting up there april vacation, and maybe stayin a few nights at the shelters, if we can... Well im still trying to convince my dad to go to snowbird, but this is the second choice might still take a day trip though...

 

[dmc]

I don't know that I get "scared" when skiing anymore, but I like to challenge myself to keep the excitement level high.

So - Tuckermans this spring?

Im pretty sure im getting up there april vacation, and maybe stayin a few nights at the shelters, if we can... Well im still trying to convince my dad to go to snowbird, but this is the second choice might still take a day trip though...

I was asking Greg...

I've heard you say a billion times that you need to get your dad to drive you up there..
Don't you drive yet?

 

[awf170]

Don't you drive yet?

I will be able to by oct., but i doubt i would be allowed to go up tux by myself

 

[Greg]

I don't know that I get "scared" when skiing anymore, but I like to challenge myself to keep the excitement level high.

So - Tuckermans this spring?

Are you trying to scare me? Ha. I see your point though. I'm sure there is a lot of terrain out there that will put a brick in my shorts. I guess I just know my limits and only push the boundries slightly.

As far as Tucks goes this spring, not likely. With us having a newborn, even getting my wife to let me sneak away for SL Reggae Fest will be a challenge.

 

[awf170]

I was asking Greg...

Wow maybe i should learn how to read

 

[riverc0il]

I like groomed trails,
And I cannot lie
Wide open spaces
Where you can let fly...

Ahem...Sorry.

:lol:

i can just imagine the video for that diddy. :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

I much prefer a groomed trail. The easier the snow is to turn in the better. Ya I may not be hard core. I just have more fun crusing at a good pace.

legitment real "packed powder" (not machine groomed snow which ski areas call packed powder) is amongst the softest, nicest, and easiest snow types to turn in (so long as it does not bump up at least). as much as i love pow and bumps and trees and all that good stuff, real packed pow is so so so nice to turn on.

 

[riverc0il]

grooming in and of itself is not evil. any one who doesn't admit to enjoying tearing up a freshly groomed trail after some nice snow has fallen is either a back country purist or out to prove something. ripping some big arcs every now and again is always fun...

...it just gets old fast, for me at least. i think wall to wall grooming of classic trails is rather evil. classic trails that have soul should be left a little wild for those that still prefer a more old school approach. there are a variety of ways to enjoy turns, grooming is only evil when it severely restricts a decent sized population of skiers from enjoying their preferred method of descent. what ski area would be caught without a park, pipe, jibs, and hits? lets keep it real without being caught dead without bumps, trees, natural snow, etc.

that said, different strokes for different folks. i expect places like stratton and okemo and others to flatten most trails. fine by me, i avoid those areas as they cator to skiers that enjoy the groomed intermediate run. so not grooming at those areas would be considered evil. a place like MRG however, can't touch anything except u. antelope, birdland, and the practice slope or people would go nuts.

so essentially, it is a balancing act depending upon demand and demographics. it only becomes evil if groomers do something that upsets a hard core aspect of a mountain's population.