Growing into skis

[awf170]

I'm curious of everyones opinion on this is. Can you sometimes hate a ski when you demo it then start to like it after figuring out how it likes to be skied?

I don't have much experiance with this at all, but IMHO it seems to make sense. Some skis may want more forward pressure, some may want you more centered, some may want to go more straight, some may want to turn and you may not figure this out in just a few runs when you demo so they might handle horribly for you. Opinions on this? JimG?

 

[SkiDog]

I think you can make work whatever you have. Ski it for a while and them buy something new...

M

 

[JimG.]

I'm curious of everyones opinion on this is. Can you sometimes hate a ski when you demo it then start to like it after figuring out how it likes to be skied?

I don't have much experiance with this at all, but IMHO it seems to make sense. Some skis may want more forward pressure, some may want you more centered, some may want to go more straight, some may want to turn and you may not figure this out in just a few runs when you demo so they might handle horribly for you. Opinions on this? JimG?

Totally agree. For me, Volkls are notorious for this. It almost always takes me a run or 2 to figure Volkls out, but when I do they are usually in my top 3 for skis I'd buy. And I think if you expect this to be the case for any ski you may try, you can easily figure it out in 4 to 5 runs. Some skis demand that you ski them with an aggressive and totally balanced stance. These are the thoroughbreds and these are skis I usually like once I figure them out.

But there are skis I've tried that I just don't seem able to ski effectively without undue effort. Those are the skis I won't ever consider buying. And I won't mention names because I know that there are many folks who love some of those brands.

 

[SkiDog]

And I won't mention names because I know that there are many folks who love some of those brands.

its all subjective...but I guess youd prefer not to create a flame war..this I understand..

I bet my ski si in your list of "never buy"

;-)

M

 

[JimG.]

its all subjective...but I guess youd prefer not to create a flame war..this I understand..

I bet my ski si in your list of "never buy"

;-)

M

It's as much the skier as the skis...I'm fairly tall (6'3") but not heavy (190lbs). Generally speaking, I prefer a wood core ski. I can trash a foam core ski in about 7-10 ski days. Don't like metal in my skis, mostly because I love to ski bumps and metal bends. Not a big fan of the "imitation wood" (injected material with the characteristics of wood) core skis.

So, without being specific, I think you can figure it out.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I'm curious of everyones opinion on this is. Can you sometimes hate a ski when you demo it then start to like it after figuring out how it likes to be skied?

Without a doubt. Sometimes it takes awhile to dial a ski in, find it's sweet spot. What's the first thing the tech says to you after adjusting the binder? "Take it for a run or 2, bring it back and let me know how you like it." Last season I demoed the Volkl AC4 and the Rossi Zenneth9, both skis felt combersome to me. If I had them longer maybe I'd like them better.

Everybody always sayin demo, demo, demo, and I agree to a degree, but there are problems with demo days to consider. Even if you demo a ski for a whole day you are only comparing its performance to conditions on the mountain that day.

 

[JimG.]

Without a doubt. Sometimes it takes awhile to dial a ski in, find it's sweet spot. What's the first thing the tech says to you after adjusting the binder? "Take it for a run or 2, bring it back and let me know how you like it." Last season I demoed the Volkl AC4 and the Rossi Zenneth9, both skis felt combersome to me. If I had them longer maybe I'd like them better.

Everybody always sayin demo, demo, demo, and I agree to a degree, but there are problems with demo days to consider. Even if you demo a ski for a whole day you are only comparing its performance to conditions on the mountain that day.

But you have to admit you get more out of demoing the ski than staring at it in a magazine or a ski shop.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

It's as much the skier as the skis...I'm fairly tall (6'3") but not heavy (190lbs). Generally speaking, I prefer a wood core ski. I can trash a foam core ski in about 7-10 ski days. Don't like metal in my skis, mostly because I love to ski bumps and metal bends. Not a big fan of the "imitation wood" (injected material with the characteristics of wood) core skis.

So, without being specific, I think you can figure it out.

I can't. Some manufactures will make 2 of the exact same ski, leave one model all wood for example, and add a sheet of medal to the other. Everything else about the 2 skis is identical.

Example: Nordica Nitrous and Top Fuel. The TF has the metal added, besides that they're the same ski.

I don't care for wood composite either, but Rossi and others are making it work.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

But you have to admit you get more out of demoing the ski than staring at it in a magazine or a ski shop.

Yes, I fully admit that. Don't get me wrong I love demo days and get to as many as I can.

 

[awf170]

Everybody always sayin demo, demo, demo, and I agree to a degree, but there are problems with demo days to consider. Even if you demo a ski for a whole day you are only comparing its performance to conditions on the mountain that day.

I know demoing is important, and I probably will do it before I buy another pair of skis. But I really think you can come out with a pretty good match without it. You have to do a lot research about the ski and know what kind of skis you like. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems like the most imporant part of getting a ski you like is flex, and turn radius. Actually those are the more complicated parts that are important, length and width of more important but quite easy to figure out what you need. So once you figure out what you want for width, length, flex, and turn radius you should be narrowed down to a few skis, and all them will probably be good for you. Though demoing probably takes way less time and is a lot less confusing.:-?

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I know demoing is important, and I probably will do it before I buy another pair of skis. But I really think you can come out with a pretty good match without it. You have to do a lot research about the ski and know what kind of skis you like. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems like the most imporant part of getting a ski you like is flex, and turn radius. Actually those are the more complicated parts that are important, length and width of more important but quite easy to figure out what you need. So once you figure out what you want for width, length, flex, and turn radius you should be narrowed down to a few skis, and all them will probably be good for you. Though demoing probably takes way less time and is a lot less confusing.:-?

It always amazes me that one so young can have the insight you do. The best formula is research + demo = a good fit.

 

[SkiDog]

It's as much the skier as the skis...I'm fairly tall (6'3") but not heavy (190lbs). Generally speaking, I prefer a wood core ski. I can trash a foam core ski in about 7-10 ski days. Don't like metal in my skis, mostly because I love to ski bumps and metal bends. Not a big fan of the "imitation wood" (injected material with the characteristics of wood) core skis.

So, without being specific, I think you can figure it out.

I still dont understand this "trash a foam core ski in 7-10 days" what does this mean? I am close to your specs..I am 6'3" and about 205 last time I scaled myself...I must admit mostly i've skied wood core so maybe that is why i dont understand the meaning of the above statement, but i have much more than 7-10 days on my GUNS and they still feel great...I dont think I have "ski feel"...I just ski...

M

 

[JimG.]

I know demoing is important, and I probably will do it before I buy another pair of skis. But I really think you can come out with a pretty good match without it. You have to do a lot research about the ski and know what kind of skis you like. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it seems like the most imporant part of getting a ski you like is flex, and turn radius. Actually those are the more complicated parts that are important, length and width of more important but quite easy to figure out what you need. So once you figure out what you want for width, length, flex, and turn radius you should be narrowed down to a few skis, and all them will probably be good for you. Though demoing probably takes way less time and is a lot less confusing.:-?

OK, width, length and turning radius are hard numbers, but what about flex?

Exactly what does "soft flex" mean? What is considered "stiff flex"? It could mean one thing for one manufacturer and something else for another. Throw in the fact that flex may vary from tip to tail and there is no number or rating that will give you the information you need to make a smart purchase.

I don't want noodles for a ski, but I don't want 2x4's either. The only way to tell is to demo.

 

[JimG.]

I still dont understand this "trash a foam core ski in 7-10 days" what does this mean? I am close to your specs..I am 6'3" and about 205 last time I scaled myself...I must admit mostly i've skied wood core so maybe that is why i dont understand the meaning of the above statement, but i have much more than 7-10 days on my GUNS and they still feel great...I dont think I have "ski feel"...I just ski...

M

In the old days of straight skis I could decamber a foam ski in about 5 ski days. After that, they were worthless junk.

Nowadays, I either bend or break them in 7-10 days. Even worse.

And even when new, foam cores always felt too soft to me. I like some flex, but not too much.

 

[SkiDog]

In the old days of straight skis I could decamber a foam ski in about 5 ski days. After that, they were worthless junk.

Nowadays, I either bend or break them in 7-10 days. Even worse.

And even when new, foam cores always felt too soft to me. I like some flex, but not too much.

how exactly to you break them? or "bend" for that matter..I dont know that the GUNS have any metal other than the edges to "bend"..I did bend my volants in the bumps..

In the old days skis were made much differently that the foam cores of today. Least from what I understand...

I am still having trouble with the terms like "decamber" I guess I have to do some research...maybe im skiing on already decambered skis and I dont even know it...

IGNORANCE IS BLISS I TELL YA...I enjoy myself and they get down as fast as the guy next to me....so they must be ok.. ;-)

M

 

[SkiDog]

is "camber" the "bow" of the skis when placed base to base? and when you "decamber" a ski that "bow" is not as noticable???

trying to grasp the significance of this..sorry for being a bonehead.

M

 

[JimG.]

how exactly to you break them? or "bend" for that matter..I dont know that the GUNS have any metal other than the edges to "bend"..I did bend my volants in the bumps..

In the old days skis were made much differently that the foam cores of today. Least from what I understand...

I am still having trouble with the terms like "decamber" I guess I have to do some research...maybe im skiing on already decambered skis and I dont even know it...

IGNORANCE IS BLISS I TELL YA...I enjoy myself and they get down as fast as the guy next to me....so they must be ok.. ;-)

M

I'm not sure what you're asking me...I'm not sure exactly what I've done to break foam skis, but I can say it usually happens when I ski bumps. I did once break a ski hitting a rock, but I don't blame the ski for that.

Bending happens a variety of ways. I've bent tips up so the ski no longer lays flat on the snow, and I've bent skis sideways so they are crooked. Always a foam ski, never a good thing.

Skis with metal in the core are never a good choice for bumps...because the metal eventually bends. Great for ripping carved turns though because the metal creates a very damp ski.

Camber refers more to old ski technology. The skis were bowed when viewed from the side; you can still see that in new skis, just less so. Shaped skis turn when you tip them on edge. Older straight skis needed pressure as well as being tipped on edge to turn them. When you pressured the ski, it decambered and made an arc in the snow. That's how old ski tech used to work. Once an old ski lost its' camber, it didn't turn so well anymore.

 

[JimG.]

is "camber" the "bow" of the skis when placed base to base? and when you "decamber" a ski that "bow" is not as noticable???

trying to grasp the significance of this..sorry for being a bonehead.

M

Exactly.

 

[SkiDog]

I'm not sure what you're asking me...I'm not sure exactly what I've done to break foam skis, but I can say it usually happens when I ski bumps. I did once break a ski hitting a rock, but I don't blame the ski for that.

Bending happens a variety of ways. I've bent tips up so the ski no longer lays flat on the snow, and I've bent skis sideways so they are crooked. Always a foam ski, never a good thing.

Skis with metal in the core are never a good choice for bumps...because the metal eventually bends. Great for ripping carved turns though because the metal creates a very damp ski.

Camber refers more to old ski technology. The skis were bowed when viewed from the side; you can still see that in new skis, just less so. Shaped skis turn when you tip them on edge. Older straight skis needed pressure as well as being tipped on edge to turn them. When you pressured the ski, it decambered and made an arc in the snow. That's how old ski tech used to work. Once an old ski lost its' camber, it didn't turn so well anymore.

Gotcha..thats what I thought..and I was also aware that the tech had changed...

Have you had any issues with todays foam core lines??? Maybe the old feelings you have have since vanished? honestly the guns are my first pair of foam cores, but I do like them and havent noticed any issues with them...just wondered if all the probelms you had with the old straight skis have vanished due to advanced technologies?

I was looking at those BRO pics in that other link..man they have some serious camber...

basically though it just effects how fast you can get from edge to edge on the ski right? Seems that sidecut combined with the camber may have fixed this "issue"??

I'll have to keep an eye on it...see if I notice anything, likely more tired legs at the end of a day...I try not to pay attention to things like this..I just try to ski.

thanks..

M

 

[awf170]

Gotcha..thats what I thought..and I was also aware that the tech had changed...

Have you had any issues with todays foam core lines??? Maybe the old feelings you have have since vanished? honestly the guns are my first pair of foam cores, but I do like them and havent noticed any issues with them...just wondered if all the probelms you had with the old straight skis have vanished due to advanced technologies?

I was looking at those BRO pics in that other link..man they have some serious camber...

basically though it just effects how fast you can get from edge to edge on the ski right? Seems that sidecut combined with the camber may have fixed this "issue"??

I'll have to keep an eye on it...see if I notice anything, likely more tired legs at the end of a day...I try not to pay attention to things like this..I just try to ski.

thanks..

M

From my limited understanding: more camber is better on groomers. Less camber is better in powder. The more you kill your Guns the better they will be in powder, less tip dive. And those are last years Bro's, this years have a lot less camber.