Haystack / Hermitage news

[mbedle]

Looks like some of the members are pushing to lease the ski area this winter to keep it operational.

https://vtdigger.org/2018/07/12/hermitage-club-members-want-to-lease-haystack-for-ski-season/

 

[slatham]

Looks like some of the members are pushing to lease the ski area this winter to keep it operational.

https://vtdigger.org/2018/07/12/hermitage-club-members-want-to-lease-haystack-for-ski-season/

Sad story. Hope they can operate this winter but that seems a tall task. And the white knight is nowhere to be seen.......

 

[deadheadskier]

Sad story. Hope they can operate this winter but that seems a tall task. And the white knight is nowhere to be seen.......

I think the overall problem here is the property owner's / investors didn't properly vet Barnes and his plan. He was the White Knight providing this exclusive club that I totally get the appeal to; terrain inadequacy aside and if you could afford it. Barnes was a great salesman and bad operations guy. I'm not even sure a great operations guy could have made Haystack work.

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[icecoast1]

I think the overall problem here is the property owner's / investors didn't properly vet Barnes and his plan. He was the White Knight providing this exclusive club that I totally get the appeal to; terrain inadequacy aside and if you could afford it. Barnes was a great salesman and bad operations guy. I'm not even sure a great operations guy could have made Haystack work.

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It could have worked and still could work with the right person, Barnes was just horribly inept.

Seems like a pretty uphill battle for the members trying to lease it out for the winter, not only funding it as well as securing the equipment needed to operate when most every vendor in the industry is owed money, but also finding staff to work there.

 

[sull1102]

I think the overall problem here is the property owner's / investors didn't properly vet Barnes and his plan. He was the White Knight providing this exclusive club that I totally get the appeal to; terrain inadequacy aside and if you could afford it. Barnes was a great salesman and bad operations guy. I'm not even sure a great operations guy could have made Haystack work.

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Being sort of on the inside for the last full winter of operations back in 16/17, I remember almost daily conversations amongst us lower level employees about how much money was being left on the table. The office backend and leadership was a disaster in that regard. It was just a lack of real experience doing these jobs, you had a lot of people also on cruise control, people Barnes probably thought would excel but instead they all walked around like they had already achieved something and had been in the industry 45+ years. Having been at Mount Snow the year before, it was really obvious the major issues like this. Mountain ops seemed to run pretty well because they simply did what they needed to do and you knew to stay out of the way.

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[Glenn]

Hope something can be done. The longer stuff sits, the more capital it'll take to get it up and running again.

 

[VTKilarney]

Is the golf course being maintained - because those can go to hell very quickly.

 

[HowieT2]

It could have worked and still could work with the right person, Barnes was just horribly inept.

Seems like a pretty uphill battle for the members trying to lease it out for the winter, not only funding it as well as securing the equipment needed to operate when most every vendor in the industry is owed money, but also finding staff to work there.

Can you name a private members only ski area that was/is successful?

 

[slatham]

Can you name a private members only ski area that was/is successful?

I do not know the details but my understanding is that Yellowstone Club is currently in good shape, but that of course is after the bankruptcy and fraud caused by the first developer (which after 10 years was resolved 6 months ago).

There apparently there's a new club in Colorado - Cimarron Mountain Club, Colorado.

And there's HoliMont, New York, though I believe they are open to the public during the week?

 

[jaytrem]

And there's HoliMont, New York, though I believe they are open to the public during the week?

Correct, I skied there last year. Same deal with Hunt Hollow out that way. There are a load of successful private places. But almost all are low key compared to what the Hermitage was trying to do. Lots of surface lift only type places, and there's also a few up in Ontario with high speed lifts. Yellowstone, Holimont and Hermitage are the only privates that I can think of off hand in the US with high speeds.

 

[drjeff]

Is the golf course being maintained - because those can go to hell very quickly.

I can say with 100% certainty from having driven by the golf course on Wednesday, that it is being maintained, with tees, greens, fairways and rough all being cut to appropriate length, and the staff still on hand was even in the process of fixing a portion of the irrigation system alongside of the 10th green.

While there weren't any flags in the greens or tee markers out, it sure looked like one could walk 18 and play a normal round, short of not being able to hole out a putt

 

[HowieT2]

I do not know the details but my understanding is that Yellowstone Club is currently in good shape, but that of course is after the bankruptcy and fraud caused by the first developer (which after 10 years was resolved 6 months ago).

There apparently there's a new club in Colorado - Cimarron Mountain Club, Colorado.

And there's HoliMont, New York, though I believe they are open to the public during the week?

thanks. yellowstone famously went bust just like hermitage. Its gotta be a tough business model.

 

[x10003q]

thanks. yellowstone famously went bust just like hermitage. Its gotta be a tough business model.

The YC Club is solvent right now. It is way different than Hermitage on every level.

The Yellowstone Club went bankrupt because the original owner, Tim Blixseth (and his wife), borrowed $375million using Yellowstone as collateral. They were accused of keeping about $200million and trying to start another RE business with the rest of the money. The other business they tried to start went under and that forced YC into bankrupcy. It seems that it would have not gone through bankruptcy if Blixseth had never taken out the $375 million loan.

 

[crystalmountainskier]

The YC Club is solvent right now. It is way different than Hermitage on every level.

The Yellowstone Club went bankrupt because the original owner, Tim Blixseth (and his wife), borrowed $375million using Yellowstone as collateral. They were accused of keeping about $200million and trying to start another RE business with the rest of the money. The other business they tried to start went under and that forced YC into bankrupcy. It seems that it would have not gone through bankruptcy if Blixseth had never taken out the $375 million loan.

Mr. Blixseth spent 15 months in prison. Doubt Barnes will.

 

[sull1102]

Is the golf course being maintained - because those can go to hell very quickly.

It is to a degree, I drive by a couple times a week usual and you can tell that it's a closed golf course. They seem to have a funny strategy were the grass is cut early Friday and by the following Wednesday it's looking a little long. Overall the "rough" is a the only thing that really shouts out closed course. You could easily play a very nice peaceful 18 but it would be slow as they say. They're keeping it nice enough looking so a buyer can tour the place and see the potential.

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[mriceyman]

I can say with 100% certainty from having driven by the golf course on Wednesday, that it is being maintained, with tees, greens, fairways and rough all being cut to appropriate length, and the staff still on hand was even in the process of fixing a portion of the irrigation system alongside of the 10th green.

While there weren't any flags in the greens or tee markers out, it sure looked like one could walk 18 and play a normal round, short of not being able to hole out a putt

Sounds like my kind of golf.. no short game needed!


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[slatham]

"According to the receiver, lift maintenance alone in preparation for the 2018-19 season would cost $300,000. VTDigger also reports that grooming equipment has been repossessed."

$300k to get lifts running - lifts that ran without issue last year (I presume) - that sounds very high. Anyone have any insight into that being a real number?

 

[AdironRider]

"According to the receiver, lift maintenance alone in preparation for the 2018-19 season would cost $300,000. VTDigger also reports that grooming equipment has been repossessed."

$300k to get lifts running - lifts that ran without issue last year (I presume) - that sounds very high. Anyone have any insight into that being a real number?

I don't really have a handle of their scope of operations, but including labor for electricians, foreman, general labor, plus any ancillary costs, and that number doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[Glenn]

I saw that same figure in the Deerfield Valley News this weekend. It sounds like keeping things going is a lot of work. And I have to imagine the longer they sit, the more work it is. Especially if you don't have someone onsite checking things. Maybe not the greatest example, but similar to a car that sits for a period of time.

 

[icecoast1]

I saw that same figure in the Deerfield Valley News this weekend. It sounds like keeping things going is a lot of work. And I have to imagine the longer they sit, the more work it is. Especially if you don't have someone onsite checking things. Maybe not the greatest example, but similar to a car that sits for a period of time.

One of the articles mentioned it was going to be more labor and cost intensive to get them going because they are sitting all summer without any maintenance. They also had electrical problems and other issues with some of them last winter that might not have been fixed which could also be part of it