Haystack / Hermitage news

[deadheadskier]

Jeff - no doubt. Passion for the sport has nothing to do with your bank balance.

Jay - I somewhat agree with your "already invested" point of view, but I also think about the kind of professional lives a lot of these members have and the reason behind joining the "club" in the first place.

Have to imagine that the lower end members at minimum have $500k + a year family incomes. There are limited occupations that offer that kind of return without serious time and stress commitment. So, the appeal of the exclusivety is not having to deal with typical weekend resort madness. Hermitage offers them an escape from the concrete jungle.

Most probably don't want to volunteer. Heck, I bet many of these folks don't truly unwind and are managing their business while there.

It's interesting to speculate about how to keep the pace alive because none of us want to see another ski area closed. But knowing what the place is, the idea that it's gonna be run by 12 people + volunteers to open next year is very long odds. (You said that too).

And for the members invested there, I hope I eat crow and you all can pull it off and create great memories next season

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[sull1102]

Jeff - no doubt. Passion for the sport has nothing to do with your bank balance.

Jay - I somewhat agree with your "already invested" point of view, but I also think about the kind of professional lives a lot of these members have and the reason behind joining the "club" in the first place.

Have to imagine that the lower end members at minimum have $500k + a year family incomes. There are limited occupations that offer that kind of return without serious time and stress commitment. So, the appeal of the exclusivety is not having to deal with typical weekend resort madness. Hermitage offers them an escape from the concrete jungle.

Most probably don't want to volunteer. Heck, I bet many of these folks don't truly unwind and are managing their business while there.

It's interesting to speculate about how to keep the pace alive because none of us want to see another ski area closed. But knowing what the place is, the idea that it's gonna be run by 12 people + volunteers to open next year is very long odds. (You said that too).

And for the members invested there, I hope I eat crow and you all can pull it off and create great memories next season

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$500K minimum would be double the income of the lower end that I personally know of. Don't forget people bought in when it was just getting going for a whole lot less.

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[Glenn]

So, let me get this straight. I'm going to pay $90,950 to sign up + $9500 a year for my family and I have to volunteer to work a certain amount of hours at a resort that will have limited snowmaking and grooming on bland terrain, that's only open 3 days a week and holiday weeks.

Where do I sign up?

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I don't think anyone is talking about selling units; rather keeping things open for those who are already invested.

 

[jaytrem]

$500K minimum would be double the income of the lower end that I personally know of. Don't forget people bought in when it was just getting going for a whole lot less.

Yup, they were marketing to the 200K+ people not all that long ago. That's is indeed a big difference from the 500K people. So now if they raise the annual fee even more you lose X amount of members and might end up with less income from dues. You now need to replace those people with the higher earners and hope they can find enough of them that aren't skeptical about the place staying in business. Even if somebody had 100K to burn, do they really want to burn it on a such an unstable club? I hope it all works out somehow, would hate to see it go permanently NELSAP, but I'm not feeling too optimistic.

 

[sull1102]

Driving around the area yesterday while hiking Mount Snow, perfect weather for it, I noticed a couple things of interest. The signs for the Hermitage Club golf course are gone mostly. The one at Spyglass Rd was pulled down and now says Haystack . Another sign on the road was removed altogether. The trails at the ski area are not being maintained too much from what I could see. On the other hand golf course looks perfect right now, really really nice.

It is interesting to see that there is a lot of construction going on all around. There is still a lot of new construction going up in town and one has to wonder, why would you buy a Club membership and build up there for more when you could get closer to Snow for less in a condo or get some real land for yourself.

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[drjeff]

Driving around the area yesterday while hiking Mount Snow, perfect weather for it, I noticed a couple things of interest. The signs for the Hermitage Club golf course are gone mostly. The one at Spyglass Rd was pulled down and now says Haystack . Another sign on the road was removed altogether. The trails at the ski area are not being maintained too much from what I could see. On the other hand golf course looks perfect right now, really really nice.

It is interesting to see that there is a lot of construction going on all around. There is still a lot of new construction going up in town and one has to wonder, why would you buy a Club membership and build up there for more when you could get closer to Snow for less in a condo or get some real land for yourself.

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With how good the golf course looked when I was up there last week, I wouldn't be surprised at all if one was to walk the course now, they'd see some divots in the tee boxes and ball marks in the greens. I can't imagine that nobody hasn't walked a round or 2 on it this Summer, especially since from what I saw last week, there wasn't any signage around the pro shop/clubhouse saying "private property, no trespassing" or similar....

As for maintenance/mowing of the ski trails, Lets see what happens come late Sept/Early Oct. I certainly can speak from personal experience that a number of trails at Mount Snow don't see a mower until after Labor Day, and more often Oct 1st, every year

 

[AdironRider]

This thread is jumping the shark. A bunch of high net worth individuals bumping chairs because they love the sport?

I think we are seeing the effects of the July 1st pot legalization. You guys are high as a kite with your proposed solutions for this place.

 

[GregoryIsaacs]

This thread is jumping the shark. A bunch of high net worth individuals bumping chairs because they love the sport?

I think we are seeing the effects of the July 1st pot legalization. You guys are high as a kite with your proposed solutions for this place.

Shit! I guess after all that smoking we forgot that community-run ski areas don't work whatsoever! What fools we are!

 

[AdironRider]

Hermitage is about the exact opposite of a community run ski area.

Puff puff pass, the weed must be good in here!

 

[ss20]

This thread is jumping the shark. A bunch of high net worth individuals bumping chairs because they love the sport?

I think we are seeing the effects of the July 1st pot legalization. You guys are high as a kite with your proposed solutions for this place.

The "12 people can run a ski area" debate had me rolling...:lol:

 

[FBGM]

Maybe these guys should peddle oxy and pills through the resort for some extra profit like Peak Resorts did at Jack Frost.

 

[sull1102]

Alright well then, I enjoy how those who know the resort on a personal level have been talking about what is possible and how while the few who seem to have no familiarity with the Club whatsoever are adamant it cannot work. Also, had I known when I wrote 12 guys and gals that we would be debating it two days later then I would've done a lot more investigating. I think it's fair to go up to maybe 14-15 employees, that make anyone happy? Have any of you worked at a resort on a shoestring budget at all? Pretty sure there's a couple beloved mountains around here that have made things work with the tiniest of crews for years now and sometimes people work as a team or ya know do multiple jobs.

Also, we aren't talking about them running a community ski resort. We're talking can they spin ONE lift and make snow 20 nights this season, enough to open say four runs top to bottom. No ski school, no food, no bev(probably can't get the liquor license anyways), no valet, no ticket sales needed, nothing other than 4 lifties, 4-6 ski patrol that could be partially volunteer MAYBE, 1 groomer, maybe 2 if you can find a liftie, snowmaker, or maintenance guy for the second one even better. Snowmakers you could easily use during the year as lifties, maintenance, etc. Some people are acting like every hill out there has a staff of 25 running the place, not true.

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[ss20]

Alright well then, I enjoy how those who know the resort on a personal level have been talking about what is possible and how while the few who seem to have no familiarity with the Club whatsoever are adamant it cannot work. Also, had I known when I wrote 12 guys and gals that we would be debating it two days later then I would've done a lot more investigating. I think it's fair to go up to maybe 14-15 employees, that make anyone happy? Have any of you worked at a resort on a shoestring budget at all? Pretty sure there's a couple beloved mountains around here that have made things work with the tiniest of crews for years now and sometimes people work as a team or ya know do multiple jobs.

Also, we aren't talking about them running a community ski resort. We're talking can they spin ONE lift and make snow 20 nights this season, enough to open say four runs top to bottom. No ski school, no food, no bev(probably can't get the liquor license anyways), no valet, no ticket sales needed, nothing other than 4 lifties, 4-6 ski patrol that could be partially volunteer MAYBE, 1 groomer, maybe 2 if you can find a liftie, snowmaker, or maintenance guy for the second one even better. Snowmakers you could easily use during the year as lifties, maintenance, etc. Some people are acting like every hill out there has a staff of 25 running the place, not true.

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So you're saying they should have...quite literally...ZERO cash flow and just bleed over the course of the season til a real solution can be worked out. And you expect the 6-digit-salary earning, well-educated, financially responsible members of the Hermitage to agree to this out of "love of the sport".

How big do you want this financial hole to become???

Best course of action, IMO, let it stand idle for a year and take the time to find a economically viable solution to this nightmare.

 

[sull1102]

So you're saying they should have...quite literally...ZERO cash flow and just bleed over the course of the season til a real solution can be worked out. And you expect the 6-digit-salary earning, well-educated, financially responsible members of the Hermitage to agree to this out of "love of the sport".

How big do you want this financial hole to become???

Best course of action, IMO, let it stand idle for a year and take the time to find a economically viable solution to this nightmare.

The members are looking to lease the ski area only for the winter, to keep it open as an amenity for their private club. I'm not sure what rev you think they are going to generate? At best they'll have a bar and kitchen open weekends maybe bringing in something. They can't sell tickets, no hotel/inn rooms to rent, no condo sales, no real estate sales, no ponzi schemes, and Vail I'm sorry but members won't be deal with parking fees either. Honestly you do bring up a good point about cash flow, but I think the answer to your question is yes, only because I don't see any possibile cash flow really happening period and this isn't for the public, so if the rich want to spend spend spend then go for it, not going to change any of us AZers 18/19 ski seasons.

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[Do Work]

Alright well then, I enjoy how those who know the resort on a personal level have been talking about what is possible and how while the few who seem to have no familiarity with the Club whatsoever are adamant it cannot work. Also, had I known when I wrote 12 guys and gals that we would be debating it two days later then I would've done a lot more investigating. I think it's fair to go up to maybe 14-15 employees, that make anyone happy? Have any of you worked at a resort on a shoestring budget at all? Pretty sure there's a couple beloved mountains around here that have made things work with the tiniest of crews for years now and sometimes people work as a team or ya know do multiple jobs.

Also, we aren't talking about them running a community ski resort. We're talking can they spin ONE lift and make snow 20 nights this season, enough to open say four runs top to bottom. No ski school, no food, no bev(probably can't get the liquor license anyways), no valet, no ticket sales needed, nothing other than 4 lifties, 4-6 ski patrol that could be partially volunteer MAYBE, 1 groomer, maybe 2 if you can find a liftie, snowmaker, or maintenance guy for the second one even better. Snowmakers you could easily use during the year as lifties, maintenance, etc. Some people are acting like every hill out there has a staff of 25 running the place, not true.

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That would be possible if they kept their operational footprint small, but they didn't. You'd need more staff than that just to run their bubble chair, as detachables are absolute hell on Ops staff. Doubly for their snowmaking system- they've got more unnecessary hardware on the hill still in the plastic than I've ever seen in my life. I could seriously go on for hours and hours about how ill-founded their business plan was/ how poorly it was carried out but that's a waste of time at this point.

Sure, there's a path to operation for the Hermitage but they'd be smart to sell off a lot of their ridiculously overbuilt infrastructure. There's just so much custom-built fat to trim, that's going to be a massive massive massive undertaking just to redefine what their operations should consist of.

I'd love to get in and see just how much waste is floating around, what the liquid value of those assets really are, and what needs to be done to make the business solvent (not profitable since it's a private venture). Until someone comes in there and rolls up their sleeves to start making tough calls, there will be no movement. Even that, though, has to wait for the courts to finish their fandango. The market exists for exclusivity, but not in the scope they had planned or built for- and my God the fact that they let the ship sail before they got the ok for their biggest arm of profitability in real estate- unforgivable. Total reset button.

 

[Newpylong]

Oh like all those $30,000 TF-10s on their trails that are used a few days a year?

 

[sull1102]

Oh like all those $30,000 TF-10s on their trails that are used a few days a year?

I think many of those will be on the move soon because there was some sort of relationship with Techno-Alpin and the management team at the Club, but I believe some of those guns may have been leased while others were being used for "testing" in the region as one T-A employee told me.

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[drjeff]

https://www.reformer.com/stories/hermitage-club-may-have-new-lease-on-life,545918

And the next chapter in this circus.... Who knows if anything tangible will come out of it? Although the timing would allow "normal" off season prep work to let winter operations to happen....

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[Glenn]

Very interesting. Wonder if they'll be more activity there now.

 

[icecoast1]

https://www.reformer.com/stories/hermitage-club-may-have-new-lease-on-life,545918

And the next chapter in this circus.... Who knows if anything tangible will come out of it? Although the timing would allow "normal" off season prep work to let winter operations to happen....

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They'd be better off in the long run continuing with the foreclosure process and getting rid of Barnes. This is just a short term bail out and they'll be in the same spot again in the not so distant future as long as Jim Barnes is involved