Haystack / Hermitage news

[sull1102]

I'd like to think the Dopp 6 pack and the Skytrac quads would be okay or at least need minimum work. Then again members won't care to run the quad down to the inn for the one trail. To run that place at 100% operation you need 3 lifts, 2 if you give up on the lower mountain and keep Witches. So really in an average winter you need Barnstormer only for most operations and something like 20 days a year run Witches. Members might be satisfied with just a renamed 6 pack running and the clubhouse open.

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[drjeff]

I'd like to think the Dopp 6 pack and the Skytrac quads would be okay or at least need minimum work. Then again members won't care to run the quad down to the inn for the one trail. To run that place at 100% operation you need 3 lifts, 2 if you give up on the lower mountain and keep Witches. So really in an average winter you need Barnstormer only for most operations and something like 20 days a year run Witches. Members might be satisfied with just a renamed 6 pack running and the clubhouse open.

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Agree. From what I understand, unless one owned one of the condo's/homes near the lower mountain area and was going to/from their property, about the only time the lower mountain saw much use was when either the Hermitage Race Team or the Mount Snow Academy alpine athletes (who trained at the Hermitage on Friday's and weekends and holiday weeks) set training courses there as opposed to on their homologated race trail, Rocker, up on the main mountain, so not running the lower quad would be an easy choice if it had to be made.

I'm guessing if they just ran the 6 pack, made some snow, and had the clubhouse, and possibly mid mountain lodge up and running, that the majority of members would be satisfied enough this coming season

 

[icecoast1]

They're going to have a tough time finding staff to work there given the way barnes treated them last year and the current financial state. Even if they pull off a miracle everywhere else, which includes finding grooming equipment, if theres no staff to run the place it's all a waste of time

 

[sull1102]

They're going to have a tough time finding staff to work there given the way barnes treated them last year and the current financial state. Even if they pull off a miracle everywhere else, which includes finding grooming equipment, if theres no staff to run the place it's all a waste of time

I wonder if all the grooming equipment was picked up or if they owned on or two of them outright, maybe an older one from the first couple years. With Barnes gone completely and a new team just running barebones might find a way to lease a unit or two. They could get away with just one unit and one employee if the guy is experienced by keeping the weekends only schedule and grooming Thursday then hitting the main runs Friday, Saturday night. That's still an almost full time employee if they do 12hr shifts for the 3 days.

Realistically I think they'll need to figure out just how bare bones do they get. You could run the mountain with a team of 12 people total if everyone understands this is bare bones just to keep things running, people work as a team, and the weather cooperates.

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[tumbler]

Do they even have qualified lift mechanics left? They are not exactly growing on trees...

 

[WWF-VT]

I still can't believe that this place was stupid enough to install a six pack chair...but if you're going to waste money you might as well go big.

 

[AdironRider]

I wonder if all the grooming equipment was picked up or if they owned on or two of them outright, maybe an older one from the first couple years. With Barnes gone completely and a new team just running barebones might find a way to lease a unit or two. They could get away with just one unit and one employee if the guy is experienced by keeping the weekends only schedule and grooming Thursday then hitting the main runs Friday, Saturday night. That's still an almost full time employee if they do 12hr shifts for the 3 days.

Realistically I think they'll need to figure out just how bare bones do they get. You could run the mountain with a team of 12 people total if everyone understands this is bare bones just to keep things running, people work as a team, and the weather cooperates.

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Dude, you don't know what you are talking about.

12 people cannot run a ski area.

 

[FBGM]

I wonder if all the grooming equipment was picked up or if they owned on or two of them outright, maybe an older one from the first couple years. With Barnes gone completely and a new team just running barebones might find a way to lease a unit or two. They could get away with just one unit and one employee if the guy is experienced by keeping the weekends only schedule and grooming Thursday then hitting the main runs Friday, Saturday night. That's still an almost full time employee if they do 12hr shifts for the 3 days.


Realistically I think they'll need to figure out just how bare bones do they get. You could run the mountain with a team of 12 people total if everyone understands this is bare bones just to keep things running, people work as a team, and the weather cooperates.


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12 people huh? Sometimes I like to answer the phone while making snow. Even better, I’ll make your burger and scrub the shitter at the same time. Sounds like a Mount Snow best practice there.

 

[drjeff]

*If* from this ski area management Monday morning hypothetical quarterbacking we're doing here, one is talking purely, 100% from a mountain ops standpoint, and not a food and beverage and/or guest services standpoint, and you're talking about just snowmaking, grooming and lift ops, with a resort operating schedule that is typically just 3 days a week (holiday weeks excluded) and just running their 6 pack, and maybe the witches triple as well, a crew of 12 or thereabouts might be able to pull it off.

With the right 12, and remember that a few of their core ops people who essentially are "Jack's of all trades" are still employed to maintain the facilities now for future perspective buyers, the ops side could work. There were multiple times last year I read on a snowmakers FB group page, one of their lead snowmakers wishing that he had more than a crew of 3 per shift, so their snowmaking operations, in their fairly modern system that doesn't have a ton of capacity *could* be run very lean. Grooming, 1 maybe 2 cats, or more likely 1 shift with 2 cats or 2 cats with 1 shift, could likely handle the grooming needs of a mountain of that size (especially if the lower mountain trails and the trails that lead back to the Hermitage Inn aren't in play) under most weather conditions. Add in a few for lift maintenance (and I'm not necessarily putting the folks who would operate the lifts in this crew, just the maintenance crews who are out doing line checks before 1st chair and responding when a sensor up on a tower goes off mid day), and the number a crew of 12 for PURELY Mtn Ops, not food and beverage and guest services needs, might very well be able to pull it off

 

[sull1102]

Should have been clear, I was speaking strictly about staff to run the ski area and maybe unlock the bathrooms and turn the heat and lights on inside the clubhouse at a member only resort that does not need to even have a front desk person if they don't want. Having worked there I know a little bit about what the operation entails and they could also cut Friday operations and hurt maybe 5 people. I was going to get into the bar and food staff etc but that's a different ballgame altogether and I'm not nearly as familiar. It is also all extra. We're talking about a one lift medium sized mountain running on the barest of bones being paid for out of pocket by members so they can have a private escape from Mount Snow crowds. I'd even say that if the weather started off bad they would not even attempt to open until Christmas break and would be very quick to pull the plug altogether.

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[AdironRider]

Should have been clear, I was speaking strictly about staff to run the ski area and maybe unlock the bathrooms and turn the heat and lights on inside the clubhouse at a member only resort that does not need to even have a front desk person if they don't want. Having worked there I know a little bit about what the operation entails and they could also cut Friday operations and hurt maybe 5 people. I was going to get into the bar and food staff etc but that's a different ballgame altogether and I'm not nearly as familiar. It is also all extra. We're talking about a one lift medium sized mountain running on the barest of bones being paid for out of pocket by members so they can have a private escape from Mount Snow crowds. I'd even say that if the weather started off bad they would not even attempt to open until Christmas break and would be very quick to pull the plug altogether.

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It doesn't matter. You can't run a ski area with just 12 people even with zero F&B. You need at least 4 people to run a lift alone. Snowmaking another 4, patrol needs 5-6 people. That leaves zero for maintenance or anything else.

Labor laws and OSHA requirements alone make this pretty much an impossibility. This isn't some backyard rope tow, and not some ski bums for clientele either.

 

[mtl1076]

It doesn't matter. You can't run a ski area with just 12 people even with zero F&B. You need at least 4 people to run a lift alone. Snowmaking another 4, patrol needs 5-6 people. That leaves zero for maintenance or anything else.

Labor laws and OSHA requirements alone make this pretty much an impossibility. This isn't some backyard rope tow, and not some ski bums for clientele either.

you can definitely run a one lift ski area with less than 12ppl.

 

[icecoast1]

*If* from this ski area management Monday morning hypothetical quarterbacking we're doing here, one is talking purely, 100% from a mountain ops standpoint, and not a food and beverage and/or guest services standpoint, and you're talking about just snowmaking, grooming and lift ops, with a resort operating schedule that is typically just 3 days a week (holiday weeks excluded) and just running their 6 pack, and maybe the witches triple as well, a crew of 12 or thereabouts might be able to pull it off.

With the right 12, and remember that a few of their core ops people who essentially are "Jack's of all trades" are still employed to maintain the facilities now for future perspective buyers, the ops side could work. There were multiple times last year I read on a snowmakers FB group page, one of their lead snowmakers wishing that he had more than a crew of 3 per shift, so their snowmaking operations, in their fairly modern system that doesn't have a ton of capacity *could* be run very lean. Grooming, 1 maybe 2 cats, or more likely 1 shift with 2 cats or 2 cats with 1 shift, could likely handle the grooming needs of a mountain of that size (especially if the lower mountain trails and the trails that lead back to the Hermitage Inn aren't in play) under most weather conditions. Add in a few for lift maintenance (and I'm not necessarily putting the folks who would operate the lifts in this crew, just the maintenance crews who are out doing line checks before 1st chair and responding when a sensor up on a tower goes off mid day), and the number a crew of 12 for PURELY Mtn Ops, not food and beverage and guest services needs, might very well be able to pull it off

Regardless of the #, which I think would needs to be higher, even getting 12 good employees to work there given the circumstances will be pretty difficult to impossible. You need good experienced people in these positions that know what they're doing, not jack of all trades but master of none people. Mountains that are financially stable and can consistently make payroll have a hard enough time finding good help let alone one like Haystack.

 

[jaytrem]

you can definitely run a one lift ski area with less than 12ppl.

That's probably double the amount of a few small place I've been to out west. No snowmaking helps though. At one place in Idaho the owner was finishing up grooming when we got there, then worked various job all day. Get a couple volunteers and you're even better.

I think Bear Paw in MT was only paying the 3 lift attendants. Volunteer ski patrol (maybe 4 guys) was cooking/selling food and there were few people working the ticket booth throughout the day. And this great guy named Dave was running the place...

https://www.havredailynews.com/story/2015/01/23/local/hi-line-living-ski-bear-paw/502361.html

 

[Smellytele]

That's probably double the amount of a few small place I've been to out west. No snowmaking helps though. At one place in Idaho the owner was finishing up grooming when we got there, then worked various job all day. Get a couple volunteers and you're even better.

I think Bear Paw in MT was only paying the 3 lift attendants. Volunteer ski patrol (maybe 4 guys) was cooking/selling food and there were few people working the ticket booth throughout the day. And this great guy named Dave was running the place...

https://www.havredailynews.com/story/2015/01/23/local/hi-line-living-ski-bear-paw/502361.html

The people who ski there are not going to volunteer to work there.

 

[jaytrem]

The people who ski there are not going to volunteer to work there.

I'm not so sure of that. I think a good percentage of them would be happy to. Do you actually know any of the members, or are you just making assumptions? I'm not sure a lot of people would want to work the kitchen or scrub toilets. But working the register or ticket checking, things like that, I think they would have no problem with. Wouldn't need a lot fo hours from each person if each family chipped in time. And you could no doubt pick up a few volunteer patrollers if you offer free skiing for their family.

 

[sull1102]

I think you could get a couple members kids some weekend seasonal work maybe answering phones and such, but being a private club there's no ticket sales going on and the liftie can check passes but they probably recognize most.

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[deadheadskier]

So, let me get this straight. I'm going to pay $90,950 to sign up + $9500 a year for my family and I have to volunteer to work a certain amount of hours at a resort that will have limited snowmaking and grooming on bland terrain, that's only open 3 days a week and holiday weeks.

Where do I sign up?

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[drjeff]

The people who ski there are not going to volunteer to work there.

Knowing a number of families who are members there with kids in the racing program around the age of my kids, I feel 99% certain that they could get some families to volunteer some time for the club if needed

I know this may come as a shock to many on AZ, but at their core, there are a bunch of Hermitage members who are just as passionate about this sport we all love dearly, as many members of this board. Their bank accounts may be quite different, but their love of the sport, and seeing their family and friends share their love for the sport is quite similar in many cases

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[jaytrem]

So, let me get this straight. I'm going to pay $90,950 to sign up + $9500 a year for my family and I have to volunteer to work a certain amount of hours at a resort that will have limited snowmaking and grooming on bland terrain, that's only open 3 days a week and holiday weeks.

Where do I sign up?

The thing is, people are already signed up. So now they can get nothing for their 30k-80k that they already paid. Or possibly work a few hours, which they might actually enjoy the socialization part, and get to ski there this year. Probably not happening anyway though. Anyway, seems like the volunteers I've run in to at the clubs and non-profits are typically enjoying their "work" time more than paid staff. No reason it would be different there.

Another problem the club has is a lot of people signed up at around half the current initiation fee and half the current annual fee. So while you do have a lot of people that can easily handle the $9500 plus an extra $10000 this year. You also have a bunch that either can't afford it or don't think it's worth the price.