Haystack / Hermitage news

[slatham]

Yeah makes sense a hedge funds gets involved. I love the contrast of Hermitage and Magic over the past two years. Go JM!

 

[sull1102]

I really do not see how a guy that has built up and run golf courses in Florida and the Caribbean with zero ski industry experience to speak of(at least in the article) is going to make the Club tick. There's just no way, he's not going to be able to offer those decades of experience worth of knowledge when those below him come for questions November-April. Maybe they are thinking the best bet is to transition into more of a golf focus and make the summer the primary draw.

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[Blowhard]

people are missing the real point here. Oz Real Estate. The President (google - steve orbuch oz real estate skiing) is a guy who used to have a share house right out of business school at Mt Snow. He's a skier and a hoity toity one, he can ski most blacks well, but not sure beyond that as I haven't skied with him in years. I think it's also important to note that Oz Real Estate held the debt on the Okemo/Sunapee/CB consortium that was bought out by the Vail deal. I'd also suggest that Sibley is not Barnes' Choice, but Oz's. I have zero doubt they are writing covenants on the debt that give them the ability to take control of the whole thing.

 

[machski]

Yeah, the article made it sound like Barnes is on the out when this thing is a done deal. Kind of surprised OZ jumped back into the ski business as they were basically out of it again, but a private club near NYC does make sense. With a governing board running the thing, sounds more like a private club to me than a business venture to make money. Should run ok now if I had to bet.

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[cdskier]

people are missing the real point here. Oz Real Estate. The President (google - steve orbuch oz real estate skiing) is a guy who used to have a share house right out of business school at Mt Snow. He's a skier and a hoity toity one, he can ski most blacks well, but not sure beyond that as I haven't skied with him in years. I think it's also important to note that Oz Real Estate held the debt on the Okemo/Sunapee/CB consortium that was bought out by the Vail deal. I'd also suggest that Sibley is not Barnes' Choice, but Oz's. I have zero doubt they are writing covenants on the debt that give them the ability to take control of the whole thing.

I knew Oz sounded familiar from something ski related but couldn't offhand remember what it was.

 

[icecoast1]

Yeah, the article made it sound like Barnes is on the out when this thing is a done deal. Kind of surprised OZ jumped back into the ski business as they were basically out of it again, but a private club near NYC does make sense. With a governing board running the thing, sounds more like a private club to me than a business venture to make money. Should run ok now if I had to bet.

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I might have misread it but it read to me like he'd still be around but the new GM and board of directors would be making the decisions. If he is truly out of it completely, that would be a really good thing

 

[machski]

I might have misread it but it read to me like he'd still be around but the new GM and board of directors would be making the decisions. If he is truly out of it completely, that would be a really good thing

The article was not very clear on Barnes moving forward. I read it more that he was pushing the new deal to move the club forward, for the club and not necessarily for himself. I guess time will tell, but it did sound like he would be out of the decision making process moving forward.

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[sull1102]

He does own one of the larger properties on the lower mountain area. I wonder if he'll eventually be forced to sell that and get out completely.

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[Blowhard]

With a governing board running the thing, sounds more like a private club to me than a business venture to make money. Should run ok now if I had to bet.

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I can assure you that the ONLY way Oz is looking at this is to make $, that is all they care about on the business side. Their ego's are based on IRR and nothing else.

@sull1102, no one can "force" Barnes to sell, but a private club can probably choose not to sell him a membership. As the chairman, i am willing to bet he never paid for one and thus may not be entitled to one!

 

[thetrailboss]

https://vtdigger.org/2018/08/13/hermitage-clubs-uncertain-future-reverberates-deerfield-valley/

https://www.reformer.com/stories/progress-on-hermitage-property-receiver-says,547398

 

[ss20]

This opening line from the first article had me rolling...

From regular paychecks to real estate values, a great deal of the Deerfield Valley’s economy is riding on the future of The Hermitage Club, and whether the four-season private resort can get back on its feet in time for ski season.

There's a small mountain down the street that the community can rely upon...a little hill called Mount Snow. Yes the Hermitage is important to the valley but Wilmington and Dover lived without it...back in the 00s and early 10s...during the economic recession and when skier visits at Mt. Snow plummet ted.

 

[thetrailboss]

This opening line from the first article had me rolling...



There's a small mountain down the street that the community can rely upon...a little hill called Mount Snow. Yes the Hermitage is important to the valley but Wilmington and Dover lived without it...back in the 00s and early 10s...during the economic recession and when skier visits at Mt. Snow plummet ted.

I thought it was weird


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[ss20]

I thought it was weird


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From a municipality/tax revenue standpoint this is HUGE for the town...but the average small business or the West Dover 7-11?...business as usual with or without the Hermitage.

 

[drjeff]

From a municipality/tax revenue standpoint this is HUGE for the town...but the average small business or the West Dover 7-11?...business as usual with or without the Hermitage.

Yes and no.

As a second home owner in the valley for the last 11 plus years now, from when Haystack was still in it's post ASC shuttered days, to the first (failed) pre Jim Barnes attempt to turn it into a private club by the developer (his name slips my mind at the moment) who put up the successful Greenspring and Kingswood town home developments, to the Jim Barnes era rise and now fall of the Hermitage Club. The effects of the 2008 financial crash, the devastating effects of Irene in the area in 2011, etc, etc, while the total number of people that the Hermitage club has brought into the area (that weren't already there for that "little resort up the street" ;-) ) isn't massive, the economic impact on many small businesses that they have brought to the area, has been significant for sure. Places like Snow's Mountain Market, The Last Chair, High Country Marine and Snowmobile Tours, First Trax Sports Shop, West Dover Joes, Ratu's Market, Sticky Fingers Bakery, Matterhorn Lifestyles, the Bennington Furniture Store on 100, The Cask and Kiln, etc, etc, etc. Many small businesses in the area, have, and will continue to greatly benefit, on a year round basis from the relatively small number of new to the area people that the Hermitage has brought in. And yes, even 7-11, and it's VT Liquor store side, certainly has had some benefit as well.

In no way am I saying that it's been all upside, it hasn't. Even recently the closing of the relatively long time opersting Mapleleaf Brewery at the light in Wilmington (although it hasn't been an actual brewery since I believe pre Irene) show that a number of new to the area wealthy people buying property and frequenting the area is enough to keep any small business open, however the Hermitage, and it's timing especially in the big picture post Irene recovery of the Valley, has been a significant boost to the region, and one that without, I wonder what the storefronts in Wilmington and up along 100 into Dover/West Dover would look like today, if it didn't happen. This is also why I passionately hope that a way will be found to get it back and operating, as many personal friends of mine, are small business owners up in the area, who are doing well, who likely wouldn't be where they are today without the secondary effects of local area spending that members associated with the Hermitage Club have brought

 

[icecoast1]

Yes and no.

As a second home owner in the valley for the last 11 plus years now, from when Haystack was still in it's post ASC shuttered days, to the first (failed) pre Jim Barnes attempt to turn it into a private club by the developer (his name slips my mind at the moment) who put up the successful Greenspring and Kingswood town home developments, to the Jim Barnes era rise and now fall of the Hermitage Club. The effects of the 2008 financial crash, the devastating effects of Irene in the area in 2011, etc, etc, while the total number of people that the Hermitage club has brought into the area (that weren't already there for that "little resort up the street" ;-) ) isn't massive, the economic impact on many small businesses that they have brought to the area, has been significant for sure. Places like Snow's Mountain Market, The Last Chair, High Country Marine and Snowmobile Tours, First Trax Sports Shop, West Dover Joes, Ratu's Market, Sticky Fingers Bakery, Matterhorn Lifestyles, the Bennington Furniture Store on 100, The Cask and Kiln, etc, etc, etc. Many small businesses in the area, have, and will continue to greatly benefit, on a year round basis from the relatively small number of new to the area people that the Hermitage has brought in. And yes, even 7-11, and it's VT Liquor store side, certainly has had some benefit as well.

In no way am I saying that it's been all upside, it hasn't. Even recently the closing of the relatively long time opersting Mapleleaf Brewery at the light in Wilmington (although it hasn't been an actual brewery since I believe pre Irene) show that a number of new to the area wealthy people buying property and frequenting the area is enough to keep any small business open, however the Hermitage, and it's timing especially in the big picture post Irene recovery of the Valley, has been a significant boost to the region, and one that without, I wonder what the storefronts in Wilmington and up along 100 into Dover/West Dover would look like today, if it didn't happen. This is also why I passionately hope that a way will be found to get it back and operating, as many personal friends of mine, are small business owners up in the area, who are doing well, who likely wouldn't be where they are today without the secondary effects of local area spending that members associated with the Hermitage Club have brought

What about all the local businesses that to this day haven't been paid for work done at the club? What about employees that didnt get paid on time? I'm sure there are businesses that have seen upticks in business but when you have an owner that doesn't regularly pay his bills and misses payroll that place is not good for the local community overall. I do think the club being open and run by somebody other than Jim Barnes could be good for the area but the right person needs to be at the top

 

[drjeff]

What about all the local businesses that to this day haven't been paid for work done at the club? What about employees that didnt get paid on time? I'm sure there are businesses that have seen upticks in business but when you have an owner that doesn't regularly pay his bills and misses payroll that place is not good for the local community overall. I do think the club being open and run by somebody other than Jim Barnes could be good for the area but the right person needs to be at the top

No doubt, the way that Jim Barnes and the Hermitage has failed to pay many local residents and businesses hasn't been a good thing.

That issue though is separate from the positive economic side that many members have brought to the valley in their spending. That side of the Hermitage's saga has been a plus to the region

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[Glenn]

A former neighbor of ours in CT did some painting work for the Hermitage a few years back. I was surprised they had out of the area contractors doing work there.

 

[skiur]

A former neighbor of ours in CT did some painting work for the Hermitage a few years back. I was surprised they had out of the area contractors doing work there.

Did they get paid?

 

[drjeff]

A former neighbor of ours in CT did some painting work for the Hermitage a few years back. I was surprised they had out of the area contractors doing work there.

Some of it might of been simply lack of available contractors to do all of the work that was going on in the Valley a few years ago.

Case in point, when we were looking to redo the bathrooms in our condo a few years ago, right when the Hermitage was really getting going, we barely could find a contractor in the Windham/Bennington county areas who would return our calls, and the one's that did often told us that they were so busy since the Hermitage had most of the area contractors essentially "locked up" in a stream of on going work that they often told us they anticipated would be 3 to 4 years long. One contractor even told us, that he wasn't even looking at new jobs under 50k at that time.

We ended up bringing a contractor up from our neck of the woods in CT to do all of our work, less the state mandated VT license only, electrical and plumbing.

Could of been the reputation of the club causing the outsourcing of painting to CT contractors then, could of just been the lack of contractors to simultaneously work on all of the projects they had going a few years ago as well????

 

[sull1102]

I know from friends that are contractors in the valley that they intentionally started avoiding work with Barnes and the Club back in very early 2017 because they already were not being paid the previous fall. It was around that time that WW realized they weren't going to be paid anytime soon and shut off the Club's line of credit (that was an awkward encounter having no clue and being a regular employee walking in to pick something up I gotta tell ya). Also around Sneaux things started picking up and the same could be said all over Wilmington and Dover. Idk how much of a role the Club played in it, but there is still a ton of ongoing new home construction and honestly it seems like no one has missed a beat until you drive down Handle Rd or go by the golf course and realize there are no pins out and no players.

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