Haystack Mountain Private Resort

[Puck it]

I agree we should move on, but I think all VTKilarney was trying to say was that regardless of how it happened, SS and other systems are being left in worse shape than they inherited them in.

Don't think anyone is going to disagree in saying SS is a mess right now.

We agree but it is everyone's fault that votes not just baby boomers is the point.

 

[BenedictGomez]

And ~7-8%? People who make $175k - $185k a year are not joining/probably can't afford to join Hermitage. People making $175k are not putting up over 40% of their annual income to join a ski club.

My understanding is that it's a one-time buy of roughly $65,000 to join, then annual fees that don't seem that egregious. If I'm correct, this is very similar to the private golf course market (cheaper in many cases actually), and the 7% - 8% I'm rolling with is likely in the ballpark.

If you are correct, however, and it's $65,000 per year, then obviously that changes things.

 

[drjeff]

My understanding is that it's a one-time buy of roughly $65,000 to join, then annual fees that don't seem that egregious. If I'm correct, this is very similar to the private golf course market (cheaper in many cases actually), and the 7% - 8% I'm rolling with is likely in the ballpark.

If you are correct, however, and it's $65,000 per year, then obviously that changes things.

The 65k is the current initiation fee. They have a series of scheduled increases in the initiation fee up to about 100k over the next year or so if I recall correctly. The initiation fee way back when, before the Hermitage Club was anything more than some land and a bunch of big dreams started off at 10k.

The annual dues are about 6k right now. By the time you add in other things such as ski programs, food and beverage, spa services, golf, snowmobile rentals, tickets for various music and comedy acts, boat rentals, etc, etc, etc, one can end up spending far more than the annual dues fees for sure depending on how many other items they choose to partake in....

 

[deadheadskier]

Dues are right on the website

http://hermitageclub.com/join/membership-levels

So, yeah, maybe a 7-8%er can afford it if that's where they wish to spend most of their disposable income. Can they afford the real estate there as well? Probably not. 1% has just become a catch all phrase for people with money. There are obviously different levels of wealthy. I'm sure as time marches on the buy will become that much more difficult for the above average Joe; whatever percentage you wish to attach to their name.

 

[x10003q]

Nor am I. And that is exactly my point. The baby boomers are able to enjoy full social security benefits, whereas subsequent generations cannot count on doing so.

Spare us your whining. I have been paying more than 6% of my earnings for most of my working years. Tack on the employer match and you are at more than 12%. In addition my full retirement age is 67. Send your misplaced anger to the clowns in DC who misuse the SS fund.

I wouldn't pay $1000/year to ski haystack in its current form.

 

[VTKilarney]

You think that I'm not paying into SS as well? You got what you paid for. Don't complain. I won't get what I paid for.


.

 

[JamaicaMan]

Tin, it's not the number of runs that they are emphasizing. It's the "only private ski resort" phrase. That gets the 1%ers blood (and money) flowing. God bless America. God bless (and help) Magic.........

Magic is like a private mountain for the 99%ers.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[darent]

Nor am I. And that is exactly my point. The baby boomers are able to enjoy full social security benefits, whereas subsequent generations cannot count on doing so.

why shouldn't we enjoy full SS benefits, we are the first ones who paid into it our whole working lives. we have earned it. If the government would have taken care of it we wouldn't be discussing its could be failure. all who have paid in would benefit

 

[VTKilarney]

And do you think that the government who blew it was comprised of and/or elected by my generation?


.

 

[steamboat1]

And do you think that the government who blew it was comprised of and/or elected by my generation?


.

No, recently they're screwing things up even worse.

Who's going to pay off $18+ trillion in debt.

You're screwed.

 

[prsboogie]

why shouldn't we enjoy full SS benefits, we are the first ones who paid into it our whole working lives. we have earned it. If the government would have taken care of it we wouldn't be discussing its could be failure. all who have paid in would benefit

Maybe if the gov didn't allow people who have never paid into collect from it, maybe I would feel like I have a shot at collecting from them money that it being wasted for me.

 

[drjeff]

why shouldn't we enjoy full SS benefits, we are the first ones who paid into it our whole working lives. we have earned it. If the government would have taken care of it we wouldn't be discussing its could be failure. all who have paid in would benefit

The real problem with SS is that when it was 1st implemented, the average lifespan of an American was roughly age 65, which was age that SS kicked in, and also back then, SS was "working" like it was intended (I.E> as a way for those 65 and older to receive some monthly income to live on, and there were both way more people paying into the system than receiving benefits from it, and also a large percentage of people who were paying into the system either passed away before their SS benefits kicked in, or passed away before they had received more from SS than they had paid into it.

That has changed dramatically in the last 1/2 century or so. The average lifespan is now about age 75, more people who actually paid into the system are living long enough to end up receiving more in benefits than they actually paid into the system all along. More people, some for just reasons and others for questionable reasons, are receiving SS benefits at ages far younger than 65, some of whom have never paid into the SS system in the first place, and are a significant drain on the system. Additionally, demographics wise, their are more Baby Boomers receiving SS benefits than Gen X'ers and Millenials paying into SS, let alone paying into SS at the maximum legal amount per year right now. Lastly, as we all know, congress (and both parties are to blame for this) has raided the SS "lock box" far too often for to long a time now.

The math isn't pretty for SS right now. I know that I've been paying into SS now for over 20 years, and have another 20+ years to go until I hit age 65 and would be eligible for receiving my SS income. Looking at things as objectively as possible, and having talked to my financial planner and friends in the finance world, I figure the chances of me getting my SS benefits in 20+ years, short of the government taking possession of a large amount of peoples personal, private retirement funds in IRA's, etc (or maybe the gov't finding those mythical trees that money grows on ), is maybe 10 to 20% at best

 

[x10003q]

You think that I'm not paying into SS as well? You got what you paid for. Don't complain. I won't get what I paid for.


.

I haven't been paid a nickel as I have many years to go. You are the one complaining. What is your suggestion - people should skip taking ss? You can skip your ss when you retire.

FYI - BB age group is considered to be those born between 1946 and 1964. Somebody born in 1950 won't reach full retirement age until next year at 66. Only 4 years of the BBs have reached full retirement. You are complaining about people who mostly have not started taking ss.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The real problem with SS is that when it was 1st implemented, the average lifespan of an American was roughly age 65

That is a problem.

But the real problem with SS is that it was 1st implemented in the 1st place. Horrible program. Horrible concept. Horrible execution.

 

[deadheadskier]

Millions upon millions of beneficiaries over the decades would completely disagree with you.

 

[ss20]

That is a problem.

But the real problem with SS is that it was 1st implemented in the 1st place. Horrible program. Horrible concept. Horrible execution.

Not everyone's rich. Not everyone can invest in stocks enough to make it worth it. Those who live paycheck to paycheck their whole lives would not have the retirement they wanted if it weren't for SS.

 

[darent]

And do you think that the government who blew it was comprised of and/or elected by my generation?


.

no, it was my parents generation that started the downfall, then it was the boomers who continued it and so on down the line. It just seems when the Government gets it hands on things it turns to shit. Oh!! can we name the programs that are out of control!

 

[darent]

The real problem with SS is that when it was 1st implemented, the average lifespan of an American was roughly age 65, which was age that SS kicked in, and also back then, SS was "working" like it was intended (I.E> as a way for those 65 and older to receive some monthly income to live on, and there were both way more people paying into the system than receiving benefits from it, and also a large percentage of people who were paying into the system either passed away before their SS benefits kicked in, or passed away before they had received more from SS than they had paid into it.

That has changed dramatically in the last 1/2 century or so. The average lifespan is now about age 75, more people who actually paid into the system are living long enough to end up receiving more in benefits than they actually paid into the system all along. More people, some for just reasons and others for questionable reasons, are receiving SS benefits at ages far younger than 65, some of whom have never paid into the SS system in the first place, and are a significant drain on the system. Additionally, demographics wise, their are more Baby Boomers receiving SS benefits than Gen X'ers and Millenials paying into SS, let alone paying into SS at the maximum legal amount per year right now. Lastly, as we all know, congress (and both parties are to blame for this) has raided the SS "lock box" far too often for to long a time now.

The math isn't pretty for SS right now. I know that I've been paying into SS now for over 20 years, and have another 20+ years to go until I hit age 65 and would be eligible for receiving my SS income. Looking at things as objectively as possible, and having talked to my financial planner and friends in the finance world, I figure the chances of me getting my SS benefits in 20+ years, short of the government taking possession of a large amount of peoples personal, private retirement funds in IRA's, etc (or maybe the gov't finding those mythical trees that money grows on ), is maybe 10 to 20% at best

great explanation!!

 

[MadMadWorld]

Why is that? Perhaps middle class mfg. jobs moved overseas because of cheaper labor costs not to mention lower corp. tax rates. We brought it upon ourselves. Everyone wants to be a Chief but no one wants to be an Indian. Is that PC?

https://youtu.be/Ec7rCsNFn30

 

[BenedictGomez]

Millions upon millions of beneficiaries over the decades would completely disagree with you.

This is like exclaiming shock that, after being robbed of thousands of dollars, the victim should have the audacity to want the money back.

Not everyone's rich. Not everyone can invest in stocks enough to make it worth it. Those who live paycheck to paycheck their whole lives would not have the retirement they wanted if it weren't for SS.

You, like the US government, believe that people are inherently stupid.

I do not.