Help! I need to get out of the back seat!

[Greg]

I'm pretty aware that I tend to ski "in the back seat" in the bumps. My friend took a video of me at Loon this year and it's clear my posture is too far back. My ski tips tend to launch off the bumps and my ass is over my tails. My brother-in-law took a profile pic of me yesterday on some groomed, albeit slushy, terrain and I was in the same position. I've been trying to get myself forward this season, but obviously I'm not there yet. I know you're supposed to always feel your shins pressing against your boot tongues, but I have trouble keeping this position while turning and as I gain speed. From the video and pic, I look like I'm hunched over and my rear still falls back (being a tall lanky guy doens't help matters). Any advice?

 

[ChileMass]

Greg - I noticed you sit back when you ski while we were at Berk East 2 weeks ago - this is something I have fought with my entire skiing life, too. But - before I say anything - if you get a chance, check out Bode Miller's style and he sits further back than any racer I have ever seen, and he's done pretty well for himself. Also, way back when, World Cup champ Ingemar Stenmark used to sit pretty far back, but not as much as Bode. Anyway - the only thing that has worked for me is 2 things - get your butt down lower and throw your head over your tips, especially in bumps or on steeps. Sitting back isn't as much of a problem on blue cruisers except that for me it wears out my quads faster than I'd like. Reaching forward with your hands to intiate a turn also is pretty standard, but for me, physically "throwing" my head out over my tips on each turn allows me to get on top of my turns in really steep or bumpy terrain. One other tip someone told me a long time ago was when in bumps to try to simulate the idea that you are "running" down the hill thru the bumps. The idea is to imitate the same kind of position and effort, except on skis, obviously. Hope this helps.....

 

[GadgetRick]

In the backseat...

Ah, this is something I think we all have to fight. I used to be waaaay back and always had problems. I've worked HARD to fight the urge to lay back. I've been working with a Level III instructor for the last two seaons and I've improved a lot.

They used to tell you if you don't feel the boot on your shin you're not forward enough. This isn't totally true. I ALWAYS feel my shins hitting the boot but I was still back. The problem isn't so much laying back as it is a basic problem of balance. If you watch Bode Miller (as was mentioned earlier) he looks like he's back but his balance is still over his feet. It's certainly not the, "textbook," picture of balance but he's still in balance.

Back to my problem. I was feeling the boot against my shin but still out of balance. Why? I was bending at the waist and shoving my knees forward but my balance was still off (towards the back). I had to find a way to balance myself.

In comes my instructor. He explained skiing is much like walking. When you walk, you're in balance. Your center of gravity always stays above your feet. This is what you want/need in skiing. When you take a step, you pull yourself foward and back in balance. When you take the next step you repeat this process. In skiing it's similar except you can move both feet under you at the same time because you're on skis.

Another thing is skiing tall. Think about walking again. Do you hunch over when you're walking? Of course not. You walk tall, you're in balance. Try not hunching over when skiing and skiing a little taller. You'll have more control and more left to absorb the impact from a bump (this REALLY helps in the bumps).

This all may not make as much sense in print. When it's demonstrated and you actually try it you'll see it makes more sense.

Hope this helps...

 

[Greg]

Some great advice. Thanks guys. Here's the video I was talking about. I know my stance is too wide in the beginning of the video so that's one problem I need to correct. What about posture? Do I look too hunched over?

 

[ChileMass]

Greg - you're really not doing badly at all! Better than I could do at my advanced age.....

The thing that strikes me is that your skis seem to be driving you instead of the other way around. You're almost there, you just need to make a bit stronger push off the side of each bump - maybe get just a bit of air to help initiate the turn (also helps to avoid rocks and icy spots). By pushing off as you turn, you will likely be forced into a more forward and stable position. Personally, I prefer a lower, more compact position, but I agree with Rick that skiing "taller" sometimes is the way to go. It's definitely easier on the legs overall. Your turns look good - you are skiing the right track thru the bumps which is half the battle. Reach further forward and try skiing a little more aggressively (but not necessarily faster) and see what happens. Your overall good technique should allow you to do that without risking a big wipeout......and bring your rock skis to Sugarloaf...... :wink:

 

[RISkier]

I certainly shouldn't be giving advice but instructors have told me pretty much what Gadgetrick is suggesting. I've had a real tendency to bend over at the waist and try to "get forward" by bending the knees and driving my shins into the boot. Trouble is, as soon as you bend forward much from the waist, your butt and hips move back to counter--in that position, you're not really forward, you're not in good balance, and it's tiring as hell. Instructors have gotten me standing much taller, with less knee bend (though I revert too often). They've also said to think of moving my hips forward rather than moving my upper body forward.

 

[GadgetRick]

Looks good..

Greg,

Skiing looks good. Your only problem--as you mentioned--is you're not far enough over your skis. As was mentioned, the skis are taking you down the hill rather than the other way around.

One good thing to think about in the bumps: When you fall, if you fall back, you're not far enough forward (i.e. you're not balanced properly). If you're falling forward, you're in better balance. The problem with bumps is, once you get back, it's tough to correct while you're skiing. I always make sure I stop for a few seconds once this happens to regather myself, then start again. I've found this works for me.

Looking good though!

 

[SAB]

What jumps out at me when I watch the video is that you do not 'push' your tips down into the troughs of the bumps. It is kind of hard to explain, but your tips should never leave the snow in the bumps (in theory anyway). To accomplish this, you need to push your ski tips down as you come off of each bump to maintain that ski contact with the snow.

Now of course, this will be difficult, if not impossible, if your weight is too far back. In order to do this, you need to get your weight out over the front of your skis - you should be reaching out to do your pole plants near the tips of your skis - not near your toes as I see in the video - getting your weight out over the front of your skis and driving your ski tips down into the next trough. It sometimes feels weird to do this - it feels like you are flinging yourself down the hill - which goes against all our natural survival instincts. Try to remember - your body should be perpindicular to the snow - which actually means that your center of gravity will be downhill from your feet! In other words, if you were ever to freeze your action - you would fall over downhill!

One other point, you need to flex your ankles more. I realize that this sounds crazy, given how inflexible our ski boots are, but we still need to 'release' our ankles and allow the ski to flow with the contour of the moguls.

If you watch a mogul competition on TV, while it seems that those guys are in the air most of the time, you'll notice that their tips push down between every bump. Even if they are not in contact with the snow all the time, their skis are still parallel to the snow all the time.

I'm not sure this helped at all. I know what I'm trying to say, but without skis and snow here as aids, I fear my rambling may do little more than confuse the situation.

SAB

 

[Greg]

I'm not sure this helped at all. I know what I'm trying to say, but without skis and snow here as aids, I fear my rambling may do little more than confuse the situation.

No, not at all. It makes a lot of sense. Thanks. So...to recap, the things I should be focusing on are:

• Tighten up my stance
• Ski stronger
• Stand taller
• Reach further forward
• Push the tips down the front of the bumps

Great advice! I'm itching to apply some of this, but I guess I'll have to wait until the 'Loaf. Hopefully they'll have some nice bump runs next month... Thanks again. Any other advice is welcome. By the way, if you're looking for feedback on technique, get someone to take some pix or better yet, video of your skiing. It helps immensely.

 

[noreaster]

SAB good points. I noticed the same thing that Greg's ski tips are in the air after coming over the top of the moguls. Greg try going slow over the top of the mogul, as you start going down the other side of the mogul lean forward, and then side slip down the side of the mogul.

Another good drill is to ski on an easy groomed trail and just practice lowering and raising your butt. Moguls are dynamic and you need to practice lowering your butt before you get to a mogul and then when you get to the top of the mogul try standing up slightly (not perfectly straight) and throw your weight over the tips of your skis (put you navel over the front of you ski boots). I am exagerating here a little but its just a drill and try it. This drill will help you learn how to drive the tips of the skis down.

BTW Head high always looking 2, 3, 4 moguls down hill. Practice this on a groomer by skiing looking way down the hill at some other person's head. Don't look at your skis. Don't look at the snow. BTW This will help you later in deep powder.

 

[GadgetRick]

Looking downhill...

This is a good point. They always tell you to look a few bumps ahead while you're skiing them. How do you get into this habit though? One good exercise is find someone who skis bumps well. Ask them to ski in front of you but not to rip down the mountain (nice steady pace though). You follow them down the hill. You'll find you're watching him/her rather than the bump you're about to turn on.

Now, try it without them in front of you and try to keep looking down the hill. You should find it a little easier to keep looking down the hill.

Also, Greg, you're totally correct. If you want to critique your skiing, have someone video tape your skiing. You can get a lot of GREAT tips this way.

 

[Greg]

Thanks everyone. I think I got the part about looking ahead down this season. That's a big step as it's somewhat intimidating to trust your body to "feel" where you in the bumps, while you're looking ahead to keep a line. I love moguls. They are just as much a mental challenge as a physical one.