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How Fat is Too Fat?

riverc0il

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I do not know the answer. Not in general and surely not for myself in particular as I have yet to ski anything fatter than 94 underfoot. I think especially in the east, but in general no matter where you ski, there must be an upper limit to what is too fat for everyday use and even what is too fat for even powder usage.

Eventually, your stance will be compromised or the ski will either weigh too heavy or not be stiff enough due to having to use light weight materials to get the weight in control. I imagine those skiing out west are more limited by these physical characteristic which would eventually combine to make a ski unwieldy even in the deepest of powder.

But you could never get that wide in the east (at least for mortals or sane people, any ways). It is rare even the best and most knowledgable powder hound skis deep untracked powder for more than half a day (maybe you get one or two jackpots per year if you know what's up and you are lucky). But even on a mid-week surprise powder dump, you are eventually needing to navigate less than stellar conditions somewhere on the mountain, usually you need to ski those conditions to get to more untracked. Powder is often found in the trees which might also be a limitation at some point. And BCers are often in the trees skiing tight lines.

Where does the desire for more float bump up against practicality for an east coast powder ski? Have you hit a ceiling where you said "that is too fat for my needs"? It seems like the trend is "bigger is better" and every few years the "mid-fat" seems to bump up a half dozen mm's. Where will that trend end? Are skiers that rarely ski powder buying into the hype and getting 90mm underfoot powder boards for their one or two times per seasons of skiing powder and then not getting as good performance their vast majority of days? What size will the bulge level off at in general and specifically for those of us in the east?
 

mondeo

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I gotta think upper 70s/low 80s is right for east coast stuff for most people. On a 3-4" day, what do you really want? It's not enough to be rocking boards wide enough to actually float in that little snow, and there are tradeoffs. I'm not sure how much is due to the width and how much is due to the rise in the binding, but my Wateas just feel incredibly slow side to side relative to bump skis. I don't think I could stand upper 80s and up as a daily ski.

Plus, see quote below.
 

riverc0il

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I gotta think upper 70s/low 80s is right for east coast stuff for most people. On a 3-4" day, what do you really want? It's not enough to be rocking boards wide enough to actually float in that little snow, and there are tradeoffs. I'm not sure how much is due to the width and how much is due to the rise in the binding, but my Wateas just feel incredibly slow side to side relative to bump skis. I don't think I could stand upper 80s and up as a daily ski.
I thought that way too prior to getting 96 under foot. I became increasingly more comfortable on them in less and less powder. They started as my foot deep board. And now I rock them any time there is more than a few inches. I am consistently amazed at how fat boards can handle well in all mountain type conditions. Though obviously not as good as a skinnier more nimble ski. But point being fatter does not always mean a huge trade off.

For an every day ski, 80 underfoot is reasonable but that is hardly a powder ski meant to be skied in powder a foot deep or more (or at least that is not their forte). I think low 80s is just barely getting started on powder skis even for the east coast.
 

Philpug

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Width is the new length. I liken my Blizzard Magnum 8.7s to a BMW X5 4.8is, it is an SUV that can run with most sports cars. To me, this is the ultimate east coast ski, I would put the Elan 888 second and this years Nordica HR Pro 3rd. If I had to go wider I would look to the Watea 94 or a Mantra.
 

kcyanks1

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I gotta think upper 70s/low 80s is right for east coast stuff for most people. On a 3-4" day, what do you really want? It's not enough to be rocking boards wide enough to actually float in that little snow, and there are tradeoffs. I'm not sure how much is due to the width and how much is due to the rise in the binding, but my Wateas just feel incredibly slow side to side relative to bump skis. I don't think I could stand upper 80s and up as a daily ski.

Plus, see quote below.

My skis (only pair I use) are 88mm underfoot. I've had fun in all conditions.
 

skiadikt

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i've been on guns/pocket rockets exclusively the last 3 or 4 seasons. 90 under foot. love them in all conditions other than the real icy days. but they're great in the trees, groomers, in any type of crud and serviceable in the bumps. demoed both the lord (85) and the czar (105) last year. both slightly rockered. got to try them both in a variety of conditions. preferred the fatter czars and will probably get a pair. lords actually felt squirrely. i'm in the fat is betterer camp. like river i've gotten use to them in less and less powder. and even on those lsgr days most of that loose stuff eventually becomes crud which they just power through. i like skiing them because when i need the horsepower it's there.
 

mondeo

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Width is the new length. I liken my Blizzard Magnum 8.7s to a BMW X5 4.8is, it is an SUV that can run with most sports cars. To me, this is the ultimate east coast ski, I would put the Elan 888 second and this years Nordica HR Pro 3rd. If I had to go wider I would look to the Watea 94 or a Mantra.
I hate to magazine race, but all I can really do. linky

8:54.4 around the 'ring. For comparison,

2009 CTS-V: 7:59
Corvette C5 Z06: 7:56
STI: 8:06
Evo 9: 8:11
Lexus IS-F: 8:18
Lotus Exige S: 8:25
Mazdaspeed 3: 8:39
Focus ST: 8:52

In conclusion, sport sedans half the price are 50 seconds quicker. Even a lowly Focus is quicker. And that's the X6 with the 4.4L TT, not the X5 4.8i. How does that qualify as running with most sports cars?

Translating it back to skis, yeah, if you're happy with 80% out of a good narrower ski, you can push a fat ski to its limits and get to the same place. But if you're going to be pushing any ski you're on, you're going to get more out of a narrower ski 90% of the time. And I've yet to drive any 5000 lb car that feels as lively as my brother's old '89 MR2. On less than 4", I'll take the Twisters any day of the week over the Wateas, even if I don't go near a bump run or terrain park.
 

snoseek

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I skied some really fat but short icelantics in some super tight trees last year and they were incredibly nimble. I think if you wanted a pair for 50% of the days in the trees you should not rule out the 100+ skis with rocker even for the East Coast. I would no way use them as the only ski (anywhere) but they are more versatile than I ever imagined. You should borrow or demo a pair this winter.


Or you could just take a chance and talk to 333 dude. For that money who cares if you only ski them 10 times next year.
 

Glenn

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Since getting back into this whole skiing thing last year/year before....78 under foot seems "fat" to me.
 

deadheadskier

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No answer is right to this question. Everyone is different.

I spent an entire season on Rossi Axioms in Stowe which are somewhere in the 120 range underfoot. It was 2000-2001, so many, many deep days, but they were my everyday board too, even on hard pack days. I'd try and switch back to a 'normal' ski in the 70s and it just didn't feel substantial enough under foot. I'm not a bump addict, but do like to ski them a lot and really didn't feel like my performance was compromised skiing bumps in them, you just adapt to a wider stance. I've never been on to give a crap about WC style bump skiing and whether mine approaches it, so I'm fine with that. I still have friends up there that use these particular Rossi's as their everyday boards having bought several pairs back then. These were surplus from 99 and a local Rossi Rep was selling them for $75 a pair at the time.

It's the preference and skill of the Wizard, not the Wand.
 

highpeaksdrifter

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I’m all for new technology in skiing. I’m not one of these old guys who long for the “Good old days” when we where skiing powder on straight, narrow 205s. That said, my widest skis are 90 under foot. I just don’t think I need anything wider on the East coast. I’m not ruling out getting something wider, I'm thinking about getting Nordica Enforcers, but I ski powder just fine with what I have when the opportunity arises. For the guy who has one or two pairs of skis I can’t see going close to 100mm or over in the East. JMO
 

AHM

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Depends on conditions............

I think you can ski a pretty fat ski in the east depending on the conditions. My regular ski is either the Mantra (96 mm underfoot) or a rossi XXX (90 mm, yep old, but simply a great ski & I have a few prs). On big windpack or pow days, or heavier snow days, I go with a K2 Made'n AK (108 mm, 179 cm)). The Made'n is quite a ski. I would go stiffer now, but it cranks big powder days, handles pow bumps just great and is super in trees. I use it a bunch outwest when not touring. For pow bumps, ie the piles after pow is skied up on the trails, it is an incredible ski. You can just go straight if you want, but it is very fast. I primarily ski SB, so bump runs are pretty narrow, but the fat ski is no issue.

All that said, having switched to a Mantra last season, I am blown away by how well the Mantra skis (184 cm). The Mantra is incredible in icy bumps, woods and powder. I was so impressed by the ski, I bought a second one for touring, and although heavy, it is just a fantastic ski.

Experiment when you can with wider boards, you'll find them surprisingly easy to turn and certainly worth having a pr. They are a lot like a 9 iron or sand wedge (and I am not a golfer, don't even own clubs): when you need one its a great club to have.

The east gets a lot of big wind pack days, and a super fat board will make that so much fun and you'll just sail through it. Check 'em out. AHM
 

deadheadskier

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I thought I read that Mr. Magic skis a 105 underfoot. I've seen some video of him killing it in the bumps.
 

Philpug

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I hate to magazine race, but all I can really do. linky

8:54.4 around the 'ring. For comparison,

2009 CTS-V: 7:59
Corvette C5 Z06: 7:56
STI: 8:06
Evo 9: 8:11
Lexus IS-F: 8:18
Lotus Exige S: 8:25
Mazdaspeed 3: 8:39
Focus ST: 8:52

In conclusion, sport sedans half the price are 50 seconds quicker. Even a lowly Focus is quicker. And that's the X6 with the 4.4L TT, not the X5 4.8i. How does that qualify as running with most sports cars?

Translating it back to skis, yeah, if you're happy with 80% out of a good narrower ski, you can push a fat ski to its limits and get to the same place. But if you're going to be pushing any ski you're on, you're going to get more out of a narrower ski 90% of the time. And I've yet to drive any 5000 lb car that feels as lively as my brother's old '89 MR2. On less than 4", I'll take the Twisters any day of the week over the Wateas, even if I don't go near a bump run or terrain park.

And yet you do it. :spin:

I said "run with" not race..let alone by professional driver around "the 'ring". If I was going to look for my best times down the mountain, no these would not be my weapon of choice. Take that X5 along with most of the cars you "quoted" up and down Rt 100 in Vermont driving in a (semi) responsible spirited manner, they will all be about the same speed.

I have skied well over 70 different skis last year and have driven (and raced) quite a few cars I stand by my opinion.
 
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Until a few years ago..I skied on race/carving skis in the powder and they were fine..I tried out my friends Public Enemys at Grand Targhee in choppy snow and I was amazed how superior they were to my Elan S12s at only 67mm in the waist. A couple years ago I bought my Rossi Scratch Sprayers at 88mm underfoot and they had some nice float in powder but I wanted something bigger so I bought the Nordica Supercharger Blowers at 110mm underfoot and they were great last season. Not just in powder where they excel but also in crud and even hard packed groomers. I wouldn't take them in a race course but they hold their own on hardpack. Going back to my Elan S12s is like going to toy skis and I feel like in crud when I carve a hard turn...they might wash out..

How fat is too fat??? For the east my 110s I feel on on the upper limit of fat..but for out west an even fatter ski would be great if you were doing alot of Sidecountry skiing...at Jackson Hole..most of the locals seem to ski an uber fat ski like the pontoons on deep days and some sort of all mountain midfat carver on more hardpack days.
 

Philpug

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On big windpack or pow days, or heavier snow days, I go with a K2 Made'n AK (108 mm, 179 cm)). The Made'n is quite a ski. I would go stiffer now, but it cranks big powder days, handles pow bumps just great and is super in trees.

I have a rare pair of these that have a 10/20 rocker they are dan sweet too. I will say I really like K2's off piste skis.
 

mondeo

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And yet you do it. :spin:

I said "run with" not race..let alone by professional driver around "the 'ring". If I was going to look for my best times down the mountain, no these would not be my weapon of choice. Take that X5 along with most of the cars you "quoted" up and down Rt 100 in Vermont driving in a (semi) responsible spirited manner, they will all be about the same speed.

I have skied well over 70 different skis last year and have driven (and raced) quite a few cars I stand by my opinion.
Yeah, I guess it depends on what you're intending on doing with the ski and personal preference. I like both my skis and cars nimble; I'd take a STI or Evo over the X5 any day (in fact, I'm not sure there's a production car I'd rather have as a daily driver than the STI, no matter the price.) Recreationally I'd take a Lotus or MR2. Engineering can only do so much with that much additional heft and higher Cg. Under 70 underfoot may be less versatile than a upper 80s, low 90s ski, but 90% of the days I skied last year I didn't miss the float, and the quickness of bump skis I find just so incredibly fun. The days I did miss the float are the reason I bought the Wateas. The Wateas do fine on hardpack, so I can see the argument, but the feel of the ski is just different.

So yes, there is a thing as too wide, but it's different for everyone.
 

Puck it

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I have Icelantic Nomads that 105mm under foot. These skis rock in any condition except extreme hard pack(aka ice). I have sharpened them so that they are better but you need to keep yourself alert for the icy spots with them. I have used them in the trees and bumps and they are awesome. I do find myself getting tired more with them on packed powder since there is more lean need to get on the edge. But after skiing my Monster 88's last year, these will be a dedicated 6" plus ski. The Monster's rip.
 
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