Ideas - Dropping the ropes for the qualified

[eatskisleep]

Patrol, especially volunteer patrol, do not like playing police man and enforcing rules. This would only add to their head aches. My approach is don't ski mountains that don't open terrain when they should and patronize mountains that give skiers credit for assessing their own abilities (Magic, Jay, and MRG all come to mind instantly on the latter).

Wildcat also comes to my mind.

 

[deadheadskier]

This is an interesting concept and one that was employed by ski areas with snowboarding during the 80's. I remember quite well rocking my rainbow split tail Burton Elite 150 in 1985 at Magic Mountain. Magic and Stratton were the only areas that allowed boarding. You had to get certified by an instructor to move on to the higher lifts on the mountain at that time. Okemo allowed boarding the following year and briefly employed the same concept before giving up on it.

Trust me Bill, I hear ya regarding the frustration of seeing roped off slopes that I know are good enough for me to ski and patrollers slacking on dropping the ropes. That was the case yesterday at Shawnee. Once I got my money's worth, I said f it and started pouching. It was a good decision.

 

[Geoff]

My take:
If you had to pay the cost of a rescue on a closed trail, I'd be fine with it. Sled dogs have to buy their own skis. If they have to drag a toboggan down a rock garden to get you and trash their skis or a bunch of them have to do a nighttime search when your family calls the resort in a panic because you never showed up from a ski day, it should cost you a couple of grand.

In the west where things are closed for avalanche danger, I think Colorado has it right. You duck a rope, you get arrested. It's pretty selfish to expect a sled dog to venture into unshelled slide terrain to get you if you get hurt.

 

[millerm277]

My take:
If you had to pay the cost of a rescue on a closed trail, I'd be fine with it. Sled dogs have to buy their own skis. If they have to drag a toboggan down a rock garden to get you and trash their skis or a bunch of them have to do a nighttime search when your family calls the resort in a panic because you never showed up from a ski day, it should cost you a couple of grand.

That would sound like a fair deal.

My idea would be to consider skiing trails that are closed for normal reasons (lack of snow..etc) to be the same as ducking into the woods. Don't expect rescue, you are responsible for your own actions. And, if trails are closed because of machinery/man-made dangers, put up special signage (Large sign, saying "NO Skiing allowed, work ongoing" or something to that effect), and enforce it strictly with an automatic loss of ticket.

 

[BLESS]

All true......It is always fun to learn though..I've had my share of hiking back up and out of the wrong places.

I agree with your thoughts.




While this may not be the most PC statement, I get confused when everyone hates it when a noob gets in over his head (spear me all the dangers, I know them, and I know it puts others at risk as well) personally, it's how I learned to ski this type of terrain. I would go somewhere most likely above my skill level, come out fine, and have become a much better skier because of it. To me, there seemed to be no other way to learn, other than jump right in.



Side note, I'm not talking about a beginner, or even an intermediate. I never used this approach until I was confident enough/bored going down various blacks throughout the EC.

 

[castlerock]

That and a little more

I never used this approach until I was confident enough/bored going down various blacks throughout the EC.

.

Those skills were a prerequisite, but now for me it is more than competence on expert terrain, it is route finding, snow quality estimation by aspect, team skiing, preparation (whistles, repair equip, phone, or out west, avi gear). That is how I approach the woods today.

 

[castlerock]

My idea would be to consider skiing trails that are closed for normal reasons (lack of snow..etc) to be the same as ducking into the woods. Don't expect rescue, you are responsible for your own actions. And, if trails are closed because of machinery/man-made dangers, put up special signage (Large sign, saying "NO Skiing allowed, work ongoing" or something to that effect), and enforce it strictly with an automatic loss of ticket.

The problem with that is that requires a variety of types of "closed" trails. Closed, sort of closed, maybe closed....

Closed is closed.

The ropes get dropped when the trail is ready to ski. If they aren't dropped it isn't ready. Again, like I said, if you are good (and knowledgeable enough) to ski a "closed" trail, you should know how to get to it without ducking a rope.

I have rethought my earlier agreement with a poster who didn't want to go in the woods to get to the closed trail, if they didn't know the woods. I would assert that if you didn't know the woods at that area, you wouldn't know the trail well enough to ski it safely un-prepped. (think waterbars, hidden rocks, etc). Those are the things that are typically marked just before a trail opens, and in many cases would be hidden by new snow.

 

[BLESS]

.

Those skills were a prerequisite, but now for me it is more than competence on expert terrain, it is route finding, snow quality estimation by aspect, team skiing, preparation (whistles, repair equip, phone, or out west, avi gear). That is how I approach the woods today.

again, I agree.

 

[riverc0il]

The ropes get dropped when the trail is ready to ski. If they aren't dropped it isn't ready. Again, like I said, if you are good (and knowledgeable enough) to ski a "closed" trail, you should know how to get to it without ducking a rope.

Generally, ski areas that advocate woods skiing and boundary to boundary skiing stipulate that you can only enter and exit the woods on open trails. So if your argument is "closed is closed" then that goes no matter how you enter the trail. If ropes only dropped when a trail was ready to ski, then you would find a lot of skiers learning hard lessons, trashing their boards, getting hurt, and swearing off closed trail skiing. Rather what I have found is skiing closed trails can often offer rewards the reinforce the idea that certain resorts are holding back on opening terrain that is actually skiable for whatever reason (lower levels can't hack it but will try, liability, fear of someone hurting themselves, not wanting to deal with customers complaining about ski damager... whatever). I used to duck a lot because I skied at many areas where patrol was conservative. I don't recall the last time I have ducked a rope to be honest, not something I really need to worry about because at places like Jay and MRG, a rope really dose mean closed.

 

[billski]

not obsessed

What is the obsession people on these Internet forums have with skiing closed terrain? I aee the same threads on the Killington board all teh time.

Calling this one-time discussion an "obsession" incorrectly characterizes the spirit of this discussion. This is the first time I've brought up the notion, and the first time I recall it being discussed here. It's an interesting topic that would probably last ten minutes if we were all hanging around the lodge shooting the breeze. I hardly consider that an "obsession."

What makes it particularly topical this season is the big run-up of snow and consequentially the dropping (or not) of rope at a far faster pace than we have be "used to" over the past several seasons.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

I think it kinda happens unofficially at some areas...

Ski Patrol may turn a blind eye to someone that looks like they are adapting well to the terrain as opposed to someone floundering..

This is all unofficial of course..

Officially, that never happens, anywhere. Ever. Period. The End. That is all. :-{)

 

[tomlane]

I duck ropes everday there is powder and have never had a ticket taken. Ropes are there only to save the pow for me . I figure although there is some risk it is still safer than most bc.

 

[SKIVT2]

I think I have a good example of the problem........

This Monday I was at Pico. I am an expert skier able to handle anything at Pico. I have had a season pass there for 5 years so I know the mountain. I don't want to break rules and deal with authority if I get caught. Therefore I watched as the Pike trail (directly under the only lift to the top) was skied and the powder cut up by blatent poachers (some with jackets indicating a relationship to the mounatin) for 2-3 hours before patrol dropped the rope finally. The headwall of the trail was very scetchy at the top with Wind slab over hard crust in a narrow skiable path. The rest was heavenly! Finally the roap was dropped and even us law abiding citizens got to sample it.

Upper Pike is the best way to most of the other great tough stuff like upper giant killer so roping it off eliminated lots of choices for me. Upper sunset 71, Summit glades etc also stayed needlessly roped off.

It's a shame that trails covered in feet of powder are not opened in a timley manner to allow capable people who don't want to break the rules to ride them. Believe me I was very tempted. I don't think a ski area can have it both ways ie. leave perfectly good trails closed AND expect to crack down hard on poachers.

 

[castlerock]

Interesting example....

I guess I'm spoiled. Skiing at Sugarbush South, its 100% open, and even when it hasn't been, they are always quick to drop the ropes...

 

[tjf67]

If you have to think about whether you should duct a rope you probably should not.

Better safe than sorry