dmc
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Pennywise - pound foolish...
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I'm tjf67 and I'm too cool for snow tires
- Thread starter wa-loaf
- Start date
Riverskier
Active member
I have fwd with all seasons. I get around ok, but clearly would be much better off with snow tires and would likely make the trek north more often during storms. Simply a matter of being cheap on my part.
However, I have a friend with an awd Audi with decent all season tires and the car is a tank in the snow. We have gone skiing in some ridiculous storms and never had any problem at all. Clearly the car would be even better off with snow tires, but for anyone to suggest that a good awd car needs snow tires to handle well in the snow is ludicrous. I suppose necessity is also largely dictated by the skill of the driver as well, as there are some people I would feel safer in a rwd car with bald tires than others with awd and snows.
However, I have a friend with an awd Audi with decent all season tires and the car is a tank in the snow. We have gone skiing in some ridiculous storms and never had any problem at all. Clearly the car would be even better off with snow tires, but for anyone to suggest that a good awd car needs snow tires to handle well in the snow is ludicrous. I suppose necessity is also largely dictated by the skill of the driver as well, as there are some people I would feel safer in a rwd car with bald tires than others with awd and snows.
St. Bear
New member
In college I drove a FWD Saturn with all season tires, and that was a tank in the snow. Driving from home in NH to college in Ithaca, NY to Middlebury, VT to see my girlfriend, I drove through more than my fair share of snow and ice storms on I-88. I only got stuck once, right next to the Middlebury Snow Bowl, and even then I didn't feel bad because the tow truck they sent to get me got stuck and they had to send a wrecker to get the first truck out.
I don't know where I was going with this, I'll just never forget watching the tow truck come get my car, and watching it slide right off the road in front of me.
BigJay
New member
Ok, you said it, they "work fine".
I normally have to pass people on 242 with plates from NY, MA, NJ, CT who are barely moving up the hill at 30mph with there 4-seasons... Maybe you're a stronger driver then most... but normally the same people you pass in the morning have trouble driving down from the mountain as well... just because they don't have reliable snow tires... Around here, it snows from Nov. to mid-april... Snow tires are a must. I don't think you see much VT or NH plates with 4-seasons... simply cause they know better.
I might be out of line... but this kind of behavior makes me wonder what would happend if you hit someone else because you lost control, it will end up being on your conscience for a while... Anyone want to brag about how drunk they can drive their car "just fine"?
campgottagopee
New member
Let me get this straight---if Ihave snows I wont lose control??? Guess I didn't realize it was that simple.
Of course not, but neither is saying you don't need snows or that they aren't helpful.
Geoff
Well-known member
I drive just fine at 0.08. The Vermont State Police beg to differ.
The thing I'd quibble with is the fraction of Vermont and New Hamshire car owners with snow tires. For economic reasons, an awful lot of people make due with their stock tires. You can get around just fine with stock tires on a vanilla FWD car if you have good snow driving skills. The roads are plowed, sanded, and salted most of the time. There might be a few hours during a storm where you'll stay where you are to wait for the plows. It's only skiers in their powder day frenzy who are out driving in the stuff when it's puking 2" per hour.
St. Bear
New member
I drive just fine at 0.08. The Vermont State Police beg to differ.
The thing I'd quibble with is the fraction of Vermont and New Hamshire car owners with snow tires. For economic reasons, an awful lot of people make due with their stock tires. You can get around just fine with stock tires on a vanilla FWD car if you have good snow driving skills. The roads are plowed, sanded, and salted most of the time. There might be a few hours during a storm where you'll stay where you are to wait for the plows. It's only skiers in their powder day frenzy who are out driving in the stuff when it's puking 2" per hour.
Exactly my point from a few hours ago. The average person living in a metro region (Concord and below in NH) stays indoors when it snows and doesn't need snow tires, just a good pair of all seasons.
Riverskier
Active member
To say snow tires don't help is ridiculous, I will agree with you there. However, you definitely don't need them.
campgottagopee
New member
I know, just pointing out how rediculous that statement was/is. Snows or no snows, doesn't matter. Drivers Ed 101----drive at a speed that is safe for all driving conditions. Snows are helpful and may give piece of mind but aren't a "cure all" for winter driving. I personally drive slow no matter what the road conditions---just not in that big of a hurry to get anywhere and I don't want to spill my beer.
St. Bear
New member
Well played.
mondeo
New member
If I didn't have summer tires and didn't chase storms, I'd forgo the winters. But I want to be able to get from my house to Killington in a reasonable amount of time in inclement conditions. Sure, I could just slow down to a snails pace with all seasons, but with snows I can go a decent amount faster just as safely. Make the trip in 4 hours compared to a typical 2.5, instead of 5 hours. The value in snow tires isn't the safety aspect. It's the fact that at the same level of safety, you can still drive a decent pace most of the time, no matter the conditions.
One of the things I didn't bring up for my case is that there's no way in hell I'll drive my car with the summers on in snow. It's just pure suicide. Not only is the compound not intended for use below 40°F, but there are no sipes. No sipes means no traction on snow and ice. None. And the summer tires wear out just as fast and cost more than the snows, so there really isn't that much of a cost hit either. Just the cost of the wheels.
I wonder, for those people that defend vigorously their use of all seasons, to the point of calling out those that buy snow tires - how many pairs of skis do you have? After all, you'll still be able to get down the mountain safely on a pair of Pontoons when it's hardpack, you just have to slow down a little compared to GS skis.
mondeo, how do your summer tires without sipes handle on very wet roads in the summer? do you have greater instances of hydroplane? just cuirous
Riverskier
Active member
Calling out those that buy snow tires is just plain stupid, as they have well documented benefits. However, one important factor here is cost. I drive a fwd car with all seasons and ski on one pair of skis. I would love an awd car with snows and a huge quiver of skis, but I can't afford it.
Geoff
Well-known member
But my point was that the average person north of Concord, NH also stays home when it's puking snow. There aren't an awful lot of high income people in the northern 2/3 of the state. They have to pick between groceries and snow tires. You can get by just fine with stock tires if you stay off the road for the worst few hours of a storm. In rural New Hampshire, nothing is such an all-out rush in the winter that it can't be delayed by a few hours.
mondeo
New member
Great in water, the tread design is tailored for wet weather performance. Unless I'm driving through puddles at 75mph, they don't hydroplane.
St. Bear
New member
You're probably right, but I know it can be a while between plows for my parents road outside of Manchester, so I can only imagine what it's like in places north of the Notch.
WWF-VT
Well-known member
Just my two cents on this topic.
We have two AWD cars, a Subaru and an Audi and make the trek every weekend from Boston area to the Mad River Valley. I have driven both cars in nasty conditions with and without snow tires and now both cars have snow tires on from December thru April. Much better driving, handling and peace of mind with snow tires compared to all season radials.
A few weeks ago we were out shopping at the shops at Mad River Green. I made a point to look at cars and did an unscientific analysis of the percentage of cars with snow tires. My guess is about 80% had snow tires and that included a lot of cars with VT plates. About a third of the cars with snow tires were also studded.
We have two AWD cars, a Subaru and an Audi and make the trek every weekend from Boston area to the Mad River Valley. I have driven both cars in nasty conditions with and without snow tires and now both cars have snow tires on from December thru April. Much better driving, handling and peace of mind with snow tires compared to all season radials.
A few weeks ago we were out shopping at the shops at Mad River Green. I made a point to look at cars and did an unscientific analysis of the percentage of cars with snow tires. My guess is about 80% had snow tires and that included a lot of cars with VT plates. About a third of the cars with snow tires were also studded.
I should start a new thread-" All season tires suck at everything" which is the truth.
they are a compromise tire- They don't do anything extremely well but they can handle most conditions, although not to the level I want.
All seasons suck on dry roads compared to summer performance tires and they suck in winter compared to snow tires. If you like sucky tires get all seasons.
It amazes me that some people will spend $30-40K on a car but then they fit junk tires on it.:roll:
they are a compromise tire- They don't do anything extremely well but they can handle most conditions, although not to the level I want.
All seasons suck on dry roads compared to summer performance tires and they suck in winter compared to snow tires. If you like sucky tires get all seasons.
It amazes me that some people will spend $30-40K on a car but then they fit junk tires on it.:roll:
+1. same for me and my wife. We both drive Subarus - We run snow tires from Dec-April and extreme performance summer tires April-Nov. The extra cost to do this is minimal and worth every penny for someone in my situation.
Last year it seemed I was driving up to Vt on many Friday nights in the middle of snow storms or even worse going home in the middle of a snow storm on Sunday afternoon.
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