IntraWest in Trouble?

[thetrailboss]

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Trailboss Realty. The "Magic Carpet" to Success in the Ski Industry! :wink:

 

[millerm277]

I agree and share the opinion of what was said on skiernet. However, this needs a correction:

a trail system that funnels down to a single runout (Opossum trail hasn't opened for 3 years)

It was open in 07, and last year.

 

[Rob A]

I agree and share the opinion of what was said on skiernet. However, this needs a correction:



It was open in 07, and last year.

I
I as well completely agree with Rick Bolger in every regard. And yeah I was just about to post that too. Opposum is a great run, carve straight down Zero G, bang the left and carve all the way down to the Triple. Must more exciting of a run than going down cab ride. Just wish it was open more, I think I skied it once or twice all year last year.

 

[hardline]

I
I as well completely agree with Rick Bolger in every regard. And yeah I was just about to post that too. Opposum is a great run, carve straight down Zero G, bang the left and carve all the way down to the Triple. Must more exciting of a run than going down cab ride. Just wish it was open more, I think I skied it once or twice all year last year.

it was never open last year. they never even made snow on it. when i was talking to a few people on the patrol they said it was the trail they had the most accidents on because of people on zero g going one way and people on fox run going another

 

[Rob A]

it was never open last year. they never even made snow on it. when i was talking to a few people on the patrol they said it was the trail they had the most accidents on because of people on zero g going one way and people on fox run going another

You positive? I'm pretty sure I remember making some turns on it last year, maybe it was the year before. But it was definitely open in the last 3 years so the skiernet page is still mistaken, it's just not open often. And that's the skier's responsibility of checking for on coming traffic, not enough of a reason to keep opposum closed.

 

[hardline]

You positive? I'm pretty sure I remember making some turns on it last year, maybe it was the year before. But it was definitely open in the last 3 years so the skiernet page is still mistaken, it's just not open often. And that's the skier's responsibility of checking for on coming traffic, not enough of a reason to keep opposum closed.

was deff not open last year for the reason i stated. this was told to to me directly by the director of the ski patrol.

 

[Rob A]

was deff not open last year for the reason i stated. this was told to to me directly by the director of the ski patrol.

Wow then they truly are getting worse and worse every year. The ski patrol has to stop worrying so much and let the public ski. Everyone on vernon funneling down cab ride is retarded. They used that same "hazardous" excuse for why the kept pipeline closed so much last year. Even after it's official opening, it was only opened a few days a week, if at all.

 

[hardline]

Wow then they truly are getting worse and worse every year. The ski patrol has to stop worrying so much and let the public ski. Everyone on vernon funneling down cab ride is retarded. They used that same "hazardous" excuse for why the kept pipeline closed so much last year. Even after it's official opening, it was only opened a few days a week, if at all.

pipeline was closed so much because it was a a sheet of ice. they also didn't have enough people to drive the cats so after they blew the snow on it it just sat for almost 2 weeks. they had the same problem over at south.

pipeline sucks anyway. its flat to a steep short section to a traverse.i dont really care that its closed.

 

[millerm277]

it was never open last year. they never even made snow on it. when i was talking to a few people on the patrol they said it was the trail they had the most accidents on because of people on zero g going one way and people on fox run going another

Really? I'd heard it was, but okay. I know for a fact it was open in 07, because I skiied it a bunch then. And, put up a couple of speed-control fences at the bottom, and problem solved.

pipeline was closed so much because it was a a sheet of ice. they also didn't have enough people to drive the cats so after they blew the snow on it it just sat for almost 2 weeks. they had the same problem over at south.

pipeline sucks anyway. its flat to a steep short section to a traverse.i dont really care that its closed.

The only time pipeline is worth skiing, is when you poach it when they're actually blowing snow for the 1 time in the entire season on it. However, I'd still ski it whenever it's open, just because it's hilarious to sit uphill on skiers left at the bottom (make a left, and sit up there, instead of turning right and going down the traverse.), and watch people who don't understand what "expert trail" actually means, slam directly into the orange fencing.

 

[hardline]

Really? I'd heard it was, but okay. I know for a fact it was open in 07, because I skiied it a bunch then. And, put up a couple of speed-control fences at the bottom, and problem solved.



The only time pipeline is worth skiing, is when you poach it when they're actually blowing snow for the 1 time in the entire season on it. However, I'd still ski it whenever it's open, just because it's hilarious to sit uphill on skiers left at the bottom (make a left, and sit up there, instead of turning right and going down the traverse.), and watch people who don't understand what "expert trail" actually means, slam directly into the orange fencing.

if you put speed control fence on either trail then you would have to skate to get acroos the flat which kinda kills the flow. sorta like eagal junt when you have to cross horizion. it kills the run eagle is a fun high speed cruising.

ill give you there is some entertainment value to watching people biff it.

 

[snoseek]

I for one am happy to see companies like intrawest get theirs. Especially intrawest.

 

[millerm277]

if you put speed control fence on either trail then you would have to skate to get acroos the flat which kinda kills the flow. sorta like eagal junt when you have to cross horizion. it kills the run eagle is a fun high speed cruising.

I agree, but if the choice is between no trail, or having to slow down to use it, I'd prefer the second option...

 

[SLyardsale]

Will CNL, a REIT which owns SR, the Loaf, Loon, Bretton Woods and a few others be just down the not so yellow brick road?

CNL just recently completed a deal with Boyne on Big Sky. I think they may be diverse enough to weather this storm. They have picked a strong ski/golf running partner in Boyne.

I for one am happy to see companies like intrawest get theirs. Especially intrawest.

You can hate a company, be my guest. But having one like this go down really wouldn't help anyone. You want these places to succeed just so they suck away the joeys we never want to see at our favorite mtns. no?

 

[RootDKJ]

you can hate a company, be my guest. But having one like this go down really wouldn't help anyone. You want these places to succeed just so they suck away the joeys we never want to see at our favorite mtns. No?

bingo!

 

[snoseek]

You can hate a company, be my guest. But having one like this go down really wouldn't help anyone. You want these places to succeed just so they suck away the joeys we never want to see at our favorite mtns. no?

You have a good point except I like some of the ski areas they are in with (especially Winter Park). The mountain is great but their model completely sucks. Six packs ruin mountains and really only serve to push more people through the mountain and crowds runs. Real estate is fine and necessary but you need to balance the whole experience and always stay focused on the quality of skiing. Intrawest seemed to lose sight of this IMO.

 

[hardline]

Intrawest takes its whistler/straton model and try's to use it everywhere. the best exmple is MT creek. why the hell do you need a village and a hotel there. its a day trip ski area. they should have not built the the hotel built a lodge and just done condo sales. i have a sneaking suspicion that part of the hotel may be turned into a lodge cause no one is ever going to rent out the retail space they have.

 

[deadheadskier]

I for one am happy to see companies like intrawest get theirs. Especially intrawest.

+infinity

My 13 months with Intrawest at Snowshoe, WV was the worst time of my life. During summer and winter I was working 6AM to 11PM, 6 days week. In the off seasons my job cooled off to a more manageable 50 hours a week, but they made me wait tables at one of their restaurants 3 nights a week so they could lay off a waitress and save $2.13 an hour.

F Intrawest, I will celebrate Big Time if they ever go under. As much as I'd love to check out Whistler someday, I refuse to give those bastards a dime of my money.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

CNL just recently completed a deal with Boyne on Big Sky. I think they may be diverse enough to weather this storm. They have picked a strong ski/golf running partner in Boyne.

Boyne has owned Big Sky for several years now, depends on who you talk to on whether that worked well. The CNL/Boyne partnership with SR and the Loaf seems to be working pretty well so I guess regarding Big Sky, stick with someone you know.

I think they may be diverse enough to weather this storm.

That's what ASC thought, didn't work too well but of course Boyne is a totally diferent type of company.

 

[Method9455]

I'll just post this excerpt from the entry on MC on www.skiernet.com:

Best skiing was at South. In recent years Vernon Peak has been crowded, and the atmosphere has been heavy with in-your-face youth attitude. A massive hotel was constructed a couple years ago but is embarrassingly underused; a painful lesson to ski area operators that customers like to have a lodge as a prerequisite to lodging. It didn't help that patrons would rent a room, then step on a lift crowded with foul-mouthed, chain-smoking teenage snowboarders acting like wannabe "gangstas." So in 2007, management converted the entire South section to the park'n'pipe theme, supposedly because it was underused. I still say they were hoping to draw the uncouth away from their hotel.

2008-2009 Update: During the 2007-08 season, skiers fled the new all-park "South" for the less edgy atmosphere of Vernon Peak. Long time Great Gorge skiers suddenly had to suffer through a deplorable parking situation -- possibly the longest walk in the east without a shuttle -- a lift that requires them to take skis off and stand, a trail system that funnels down to a single runout (Opossum trail hasn't opened for 3 years), and a base bubble tent with less charm than an old strip mall. They found that most of the snowboarders were still at Vernon, lacking the skills and confidence to tackle the features covering the slopes at South. In the meantime, ski racers were kicked off of Bear Peak, and ran amok through Vernon while the former racing trail at Bear was cricket-chirping empty. Now that area High School racing programs have left for Hidden Valley, one wonders how long it will be before twin tips are the only skis seen at Mountain Creek. Clearly this is a ski area in transition, but why? How did Intrawest's terrific product fall apart so quickly? The difference between the overall skiing experience today versus just three years ago is staggering.
--RB

http://www.skiernet.com/ski_nj.html

This really hits it on the head (who is suprised, skiernet is awesome). And Hardline's comment about Intrawest trying to use the Stratton/Tremblant/Whistler model everywhere is completely true.

I could see owning a ski house there, an extra hour each way every weekend over the course of the season adds up. But renting a hotel room? If you are going that infrequently why not just drive an extra few hours and go to the catskills?

As a snowboarder I even find MC grating. I love their parks but the whole trail situation/lodging situation/lift situation/crowding situation outside of the parks are a complete and unmitigated disaster. The parking adds insult to injury. I figured out that waiting in line every time you wanted to use a lift was more time than just driving further to the poconos. I might spend an extra hour in the car each day but I spend a lot more time actually moving down hill on snow instead of standing there.

Plus, their snowmaking is attrocious, their grooming isn't great, and their prices are insane. Friday is now part of the weekend? Come on.

From the decisions they have made there, it is no suprise Intrawest is getting hammered. They are making a lot of money there because it is NEW JERSEY, and it is the closest real mountain to Manhattan. The skier density in the area is so great, and the options so limited, pretty much anyone will make money. The real question is, how much money could be made by a real operator rather than a real estate company? I just hope Peak is the one who takes them over, they seem to be doing a great job at Mount Snow and others.

 

[andyzee]

AZ whats crack'in killah?

Nada, how's things up north? Seeing any powder yet? Meaning the cold wet stuff.