Is seeding moguls a crutch?

[Highway Star]

To me, mogul skiing is very repetitive. Some of the bump skiers out there are very good all around skiers in mixed terrain, but others only have skills and look good in a consistant bump line. What's more impressive to me is someone who can ski unusual bumps agressively and with style, or in a variety of styles. I think if you only ski seeded bumps, you won't develop the terrain handling skills that make an expert skier.

What do you think?

 

[mondeo]

Where's the sometimes option?

 

[wa-loaf]

If that's all you do probably, but you work with what you have. Seeded Moguls>Groomed intermediate trails.

 

[snoseek]

I actually agree with HWstar a little bit.

I mean if it's a nice corn snow day in April at Killington and you find yourself skiing the man-made bumps most of the time then yes it would be. If it allows you to progress to be a better all-around skier then no.

 

[drjeff]

Yes. Granted, you still need to be damn good to ski a seeded line well, but the consistency in the rythm and size+shape of a seeded run vs. a "natural" bump run does make the seeded run "easier"

That being said, if you suck at seeded bumps, you'll still suck at "real" bumps, and if you can rip "real" bumps you can more than likely rip seeded bumps.

 

[thorski]

Are Bump skis better for seeded bumps then they are for natural bumps?

 

[Greg]

I think seeded bumps are useful at places where good natural bumps lines won't form. These are places with a lot of beginner traffic, or skiers that don't know how to or want to turn quickly. Also places with limited natural snow. Constantly groomed manmade doesn't lend itself well to forming good bumps, except maybe in the spring.

With that said, I think the techniques necessary to be a good bump skier (pivot turns, A&E, quiet upper body, etc.) can mostly be learned on a seeded mogul run. The only difference in terms of technique with natural bumps are line changes mostly. I think once you can identify what to look for in a good bump line, it's pretty easy to search out the next good string of bumps in a natural mogul field.

Anybody that is good in the bumps has probably already reached a certain level of proficiency at skiing in general. So unless the only moguls you've ever come across is a seeded course, you can adapt pretty quickly in natural bumps. So I guess what I'm saying is that the overall mogul skiing technique that can be learned on a seeded line is harder to master than learning how to line correct on a natural bump run.

I think when people think seeded moguls, they immediately think WC-type courses. That's not the way Sundown seeds bumps, and the result is very natural skiing moguls. By natural, I mean tight fields that used to form in the 90's, not the big ugly GS bumps we often get nowadays.

 

[tjf67]

To me, mogul skiing is very repetitive. Some of the bump skiers out there are very good all around skiers in mixed terrain, but others only have skills and look good in a consistant bump line. What's more impressive to me is someone who can ski unusual bumps agressively and with style, or in a variety of styles. I think if you only ski seeded bumps, you won't develop the terrain handling skills that make an expert skier.

What do you think?

If you can ski bumps you can ski most anything. The wiggle with the check turn work pretty good in the trees and back country.

If all you can get is seeded bumps they are a lot more fun than groomers. If you can do the seeded I dont think it will take much to develop the vision for everything else. This is skiing not rocket science.

 

[Greg]

If you can do the seeded I dont think it will take much to develop the vision for everything else.

You summarized my opinion much better than my wordy reply did. We agree on something? :-o

 

[abc]

And those who can't ski seeded bumps fluidly, don't even have a prayer for natural ones.

Rather than a "crutch", it's a stepping stone to a higher level of proficiency.

 

[Greg]

I think when people think seeded moguls, they immediately think WC-type courses. That's not the way Sundown seeds bumps, and the result is very natural skiing moguls. By natural, I mean tight fields that used to form in the 90's, not the big ugly GS bumps we often get nowadays.

For example, here's a pic of a section of seeded bumps at Sundown last Sunday:

Doesn't quite look like a dummied down perfect line to me.

 

[Greg]

Are Bump skis better for seeded bumps then they are for natural bumps?

Bump skis are useful in any bumps. However, I sometimes prefer my mid-fats on big slushy natty bumps.

 

[2knees]

For example, here's a pic of a section of seeded bumps at Sundown last Sunday:

Doesn't quite look like a dummied down perfect line to me.

i'm not sure about all these "seeded" threads but that pic makes me want to ski bumps.

 

[mondeo]

For example, here's a pic of a section of seeded bumps at Sundown last Sunday:

Doesn't quite look like a dummied down perfect line to me.

I think you picked a bad example. The skier's right line for most of the picture is pure L-R-L-R, and is what draws attention. The funky skier's left line is basically out of the picture.

Seeded bumps give you 90% of the mechanics of natural bump skiing. Like Greg said, weighting the downhill ski, carving, A&E, etc. can all be fully learned in perfect, seeded bumps; only thing you sorta miss is trough hopping. What you don't get is the mental part of natural bump skiing. When the next 10 bumps are the same as the last 10, you don't have to pick a line, you can drop your vision, no worries about rhythm changes, etc. On a absolutely perfect course, a WC caliber skier could probably ski blindfolded. Killington's plans this season, with a single seeded bump run, are along the lines of a great learning and progression environment. Most bump runs left natural, with one or two seeded runs to get people into the bumps and give people a place to practice mechanics.

 

[Greg]

I think you picked a bad example. The skier's right line for most of the picture is pure L-R-L-R, and is what draws attention. The funky skier's left line is basically out of the picture.

Oh it's definitely a good line on the lower section, but there are some waivers at the top. My point is it's not perfect, and good natural lines can set up with that rhythm too.

 

[Trev]

Crawl before you walk...

I have lots o crawling to do.. starting again tonight @ 6! lol

 

[frankm938]

To me, mogul skiing is very repetitive. Some of the bump skiers out there are very good all around skiers in mixed terrain, but others only have skills and look good in a consistant bump line. What's more impressive to me is someone who can ski unusual bumps agressively and with style, or in a variety of styles. I think if you only ski seeded bumps, you won't develop the terrain handling skills that make an expert skier.

What do you think?

it may be easier for some to ski a seeded line than better than a natural line. but for people who arent as good at making quick turns, it can be harder to ski seeded lines. the spaced out natural bumps are just as much of a crutch for some because it gives them more time to make their next turn. the steeper the trail, the harder it becomes to ski a seeded line. check out the course on conclusion sometime, i bet you would have a tougher time staying in that line than you would the natural lines on the skiers right of conclusion

 

[Grassi21]

You summarized my opinion much better than my wordy reply did. We agree on something? :-o

cats and dogs living together...

 

[Riverskier]

For example, here's a pic of a section of seeded bumps at Sundown last Sunday:

Doesn't quite look like a dummied down perfect line to me.

That looks exactly like a perfect line to me....

To answer the question- NO, I don't think seeded moguls are a crutch. However, I do think they are easier to ski than a natural bump line. No problem with seeding here though, as they do make learning to ski bumps easier and are a great assets to ski areas that aren't likely to have good bumps form naturally.

 

[JimG.]

If you can ski bumps you can ski most anything. The wiggle with the check turn work pretty good in the trees and back country.

If all you can get is seeded bumps they are a lot more fun than groomers. If you can do the seeded I dont think it will take much to develop the vision for everything else. This is skiing not rocket science.

This is very well said.