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It's Official, We Are In A Recession.

Warp Daddy

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From Forbes re Zuccaro

Bobby Zuccaro winner of Forbes BOOBY PRIZE 2004

Blind faith in bubble-era stocks and a relentless turnover make ther Grand Prix Fund a vehicle you don't want to be riding.
When does sticking to your beliefs shift from ad-mirable fortitude to blind stubbornness? If anyone embodies that question, it is Robert Zuccaro, manager of the Grand Prix Fund. Alas, the grand prize of which this fund is especially deserving has the word "booby" in its name.

Zuccaro, winner of this year's Booby Prize, is a bull. He buys high-priced growth stocks and holds them for a short while. It's a momentum strategy, essentially: He buys shares of companies with strong price and profit growth and a record of positive earnings surprises. Recent holdings (as of the June 30 quarterly statement) include the personal products firm Helen of Troy and the credit card processing company Ipayment, which he has since sold.

The strategy works well enough in bull markets; Grand Prix returned 112% in 1998 and 148% in 1999. It hasn't worked lately. Yet Zuccaro remains a true believer. "If you're going to pursue the biggest returns in the stock market you have to accept, by definition, the biggest volatility," he says.

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Volatility? Volatility is not so bad. It's losing money that hurts. Had you invested $100,000 with Zuccaro five years ago you would today be down to $29,000.

Zuccaro's bull-era mantra is that the personal computer has helped create an "economic miracle." Companies like Yahoo and Ebay are increasing profits so fast that price/earnings ratios around 100 are becoming commonplace, he says, and justified. And while many view the economy as still in recovery, Zuccaro sees an ongoing and unprecedented boom. "We are in the early stage of a major bull market that will carry for years," he believes.

Grand Prix's dubious performance does not come cheap. Investors pay a 5.25% front load on top of an onerous 2.5% in annual expenses. They typically are enlisted from Grand Prix's broker and advisory firms, among whom Zuccaro counts 200 relationships. Zuccaro acknowledges the fees are high, but says all small funds have that problem (his fund's asset base of $25 million has shrunk from $700 million in 2000). The expense ratio, moreover, does not even include the cost of trading (commissions and bid/ask spreads). Spreads are impossible to measure, but the fund spent an estimated 2% of assets on commissions last year.

Whether out of bravado or self-interest, Zuccaro argues that his fund investors should hold tight for several years. He repeats the old chestnut about how buying and holding lets you take advantage of huge upward moves that can't be forecast. Fair enough, but then why does he keep churning individual stocks? Turnover last year came to 717%.

When a fund goes into a downward spiral of losses, redemptions and rising expense ratios, the buying and holding of fund shares cease to make sense. The right thing to do is to exit.
 

Marc

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According to the Conservative community..andyzee, your question now justifies you being labeled as a terrorist!....in other words..WATCH YOUR CREDIT SCORE!!!
You know the answer to that, "They make too much money to be questioned about their identities and judgement"

$.01,
STeveD

Stop being an idiot and politicizing the thread. Are you actively trying to get it locked? Farkin hell.
 

ctenidae

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Too funny. The next shoe to drop will be in the USD and US Gov securities. Impossible to time, but it's heading our way.

I'd keep an eye on China- they're the ones that will drop that shoe, and they'e getting a bit antsy. Going to be real interesting when everyone returns from Chinese New Year at the old homestead to find their jobs in the city gone, and their employers nowhere to be found.
 

bigbog

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...giving the spenders more money...

Well, Washington can bail out the Big Three...hope they have a lot of friends to buy their designs....;-)
..Going skiing tomorrow!..yeah....:smile:
 

ctenidae

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Well, Washington can bail out the Big Three...hope they have a lot of friends to buy their designs....;-)
..Going skiing tomorrow!..yeah....:smile:

Hey, Ford did agree to sell the company jet. That's got to be worth something.
 

ChileMass

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So as of 5PM today we're at 8149 Dow and 1449 Nasdaq. Dow 5000 is way too low, even though the retailers will have a tough holiday season and the auto industry will continue to tank. 1Q09 will suck, and stocks will continue to go down a bit, but no more than 10-15% more max. The bottom will be Dow 7000 and Nasdaq 1000.

Technology is down but not out right now (my sector) and services will lead the way back starting 2Q09.
 

mattchuck2

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What I don't get is the ubiquity of articles like this. It's filled with such gems as:

"Pretend that gas remains at more than $4 a gallon and stash away the balance in your holiday shopping fund. This will give you a kicker of funds on top of what you've already budgeted for gifts. After the holiday season, you can begin diverting more of these savings to paying down debts or addressing other financial needs."

And . . .

"Another reason for stretching on your gift giving this year: It will lift spirits during a difficult time."

The Wall Street Journal should rename itself "Military/Industrial Complex Daily". Their solution to the economic crisis is for people to put off paying down debt . . . Or go further into debt by stretching your budget (because it will "lift spirits")?!?!! Awesome!!!!!!
 

mattchuck2

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Oh, and just to be clear, I don't try to time any market . . . My money's in and it's staying in . . . I just like to hear what people's opinions are (I also like to laugh in people's faces when they're wrong, so be aware of that when making future predictions).
 

deadheadskier

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So, what everyone is saying is that I should wait for my next $600 stimulus check to arrive in May before I buy any stocks? :lol:

If the bail out is at 3 trillion right now, is there any reason not to expect another couple hundred billion tagged on top to calm down the masses? :lol:
 

Moe Ghoul

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It's a traders paradise. I seriously doubt the DOW is heading below 6800-7000, with a price weighted average and the financials component currently backstopped, soon to include GM, it'll spin it's wheels going nowhere fast between 7200 and 8900 for the foreseeable future. Just a wildass guess, but I'm stickin with it.
 

ski_resort_observer

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Headlines for today:

Reuters
Recession started in December 2007: panel
Monday December 1, 4:28 pm ET


My question, who are the experts that determine this and how can I get their job. Damn, I could have told them this in January. :roll:

The National Bureau of Economic Research is a private non-profit research organization. If you want to believe the media and these academic eggheads calling it "official" that's cool but doesn't work for me.

Sure, parts of our economy have been in a recession since last spring, hell the real estate/housing sector of our economy is in depression, the auto industry is getting there but as a national economy we will not be in recession until Dec 31st 2008 going by what I consider the "official" definition. Diferent strokes for diferent folks, I guess.
 
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It's a traders paradise. I seriously doubt the DOW is heading below 6800-7000, with a price weighted average and the financials component currently backstopped, soon to include GM, it'll spin it's wheels going nowhere fast between 7200 and 8900 for the foreseeable future. Just a wildass guess, but I'm stickin with it.

You keep making money in the market and that's what matters..I'm sticking with CDs..
 

Moe Ghoul

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Booyah Cramer was going off the deep end about SEC Chris Cox, and the ultra long/short funds tonite.........ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pretty much all I've been trading since Sept.
 
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