It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont

[abc]

Technology is the biggest driver of increased GDP per capita, not who's president.

Agree.

We should really be paying down federal debt right now, not that anyone should care what I have to say about it.

So with such "good" economy, there should be good tax revenue. Why aren't the federal debt not going down? Like during the Clinton years? (Regan also preside over an expanding economy, but somehow he managed to left office with a huge deficit :roll

 

[EPB]

Agree.


So with such "good" economy, there should be good tax revenue. Why aren't the federal debt not going down? Like during the Clinton years? (Regan also preside over an expanding economy, but somehow he managed to left office with a huge deficit :roll

It's a spending problem. It's easier to rubber stamp more spending than shut down the government. This is my biggest complaint about him. I'd figure a true world class negotiator would do better. He seems perfectly fine to keep the spending going, too because it adds more sugar to the economy in the short run, too. That speaks to bigger issues with leaders prioritizing the short run over the long run though.

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[bdfreetuna]

Clintonomics was great unless you work in manufacturing sector or owned a retail establishment. Another example of Trump policies being a reversal rather than a continuation of previous policy. The alternative would have been TPP which looked like NAFTA on steroids.

 

[abc]

It's a spending problem. It's easier to rubber stamp more spending than shut down the government. This is my biggest complaint about him. I'd figure a true world class negotiator would do better. He seems perfectly fine to keep the spending going, too because it adds more sugar to the economy in the short run, too. That speaks to bigger issues with leaders prioritizing the short run over the long run though.

Not making tough choices. Not looking at the long term.

You and I could do that! :roll: Heck, even the neighborhood drug addict can do that!

 

[abc]

Clintonomics was great unless you work in manufacturing sector or owned a retail establishment.

Give it 10-20 years, you'll be saying that about Trump: "unless you work in high-tech, export, renewable energy..."

 

[1dog]

Agree.


So with such "good" economy, there should be good tax revenue. Why aren't the federal debt not going down? Like during the Clinton years? (Regan also preside over an expanding economy, but somehow he managed to left office with a huge deficit :roll

Too much to follow but so entertaining.

In no specific order - we had a 3rd party and that was the ONLY reason Billary got elected - Perot took 19% then 12% and HW Bush would have won the '92 election - Thats one reason why the third party doesn't get traction.
Bill was the only Pres to get elected without a majority - until Trump I believe.

Clinton had the spending part of our government - the only pnes charged with spending - House of Reps - after Clinton hiked taxes - after he lied about ( place his sorry-ass voice in here: I ; I didn;t know the economy was so bad until, until I got into office - its much worse - we need to get back on track.') So he raised them on everyone - luxury tax too - putting amongh others boat builders out of business with a 30% luxury tax that had to be recinded) Newt and company were the 1st fiscally conservative House elected in FORTY YEARS - and THEY controlled spending - and like a good pol - He took credit - he also sook credit for the 1st large entitlement reform w welfare. . . after he vetoed it twice, then realized they had override votes, signed it, it was a huge success then he took credit. Obamanation btw - gutted the work requirement w executive order soon as he got in - hence more on dole w no accoutability to get off the dole.

Reagan, over doubled the income to the country with his two tax cuts - '82 and '86- and congress passed it out like candy - was - get this - in 1980 - $900 million - came close to $2.something B by time he left office - and yes the next admin did benefit from that booming economy - he screwed it by 'read my lips' and when the Dems promised to cut spending if he gave them the cuts - of course they never followed thru.

Reagan alos won the cold war without a shot - ( that we know if anyway) he outspent the USSR and actually had to rebuild the military anyway from the 70's cuts, same with Trump. I hate excess spending - disagree w Trump that it is going on - but thats the one areas we need national action. All others are not part of a small, govvernment of the people.

Said before since 2014 every quarter has seen record income to the federal govermnent - its a spending problem not an income problem.



Bet most of us here believe - left or right - each of us are better at deciding how to appropriate our own earned income than state or federal governments are. Its just truth. If you don't believe so - there is a place on the 1040 form that allows extra contributions to the Treasury.

Tax returns are private - its been well-documented the people who lean right have more charitable giving than left side - recall Gore or Biden or Clinton used underwear listed on tax returns.


If you are a true conservative, you try to keep spending low and make your job less and less important ( if a pol). On the other side the largest employer in the world - filled with Dems and Repubs - is the federal government. Central planning doesn't work well nor can it be efficient in its allocation of capital.


He;s not coming to Thanksgiving Dinner, but almost all aspects of life are better and staying that way - I didn't support him in primaries but will now and as mentioned before - Donald Duck will be a better choice that any on the left ( If Doomberg is so moderate, why is he promising to throw his money to anyone opposing Trump?) Not conservative or moderate.



Low unemployment, getting out of middle east ( the biggest reason is Energy Dept who came up with fracking has made us not need that oil or gas) energy independent! How comforting. ( No one on earth is going to pump oil or gas as clean as we are doing it either)

I don't get the criminal thing - pot sellers - sure - look at NYC and the $1500 bail? Oh boy!


I'll take deregulation of banks too - let them loose money and we won't bail them out.

Its hard to believe how consequential he has been. Who knew? Framers had this thing right - good or bad - 4 or 8 years. Thats what China is waiting for. . . . . . . . meanwhile he's exactly right on them as well.

He is not conservative so much as common sense. And every president should want the best 1st for their country. Call me a deplorable.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Too much to follow but so entertaining.
Bill was the only Pres to get elected without a majority - until Trump I believe.

Dubya did not win his first popular vote.

 

[Not Sure]

Dubya did not win his first popular vote.

You could say he did with voters that have a pulse . Total votes no .

These two electoral victories in the last 2 decades can be seen as proof that there is a god and he has a sense of humor.

 

[Edd]

You could say he did with voters that have a pulse . Total votes no.

Popular vote, he lost. Not sure what you mean.

 

[Not Sure]

Popular vote, he lost. Not sure what you mean.

Lots of people who vote Republican all there lives manage to vote Democrat after they die . It was a tongue and cheek attempt at humor . Big cities are where you find voter fraud problems.

 

[Edd]

Lots of people who vote Republican all there lives manage to vote Democrat after they die . It was a tongue and cheek attempt at humor . Big cities are where you find voter fraud problems.

From what credible source did you hear this?

 

[EPB]

From what credible source did you hear this?

Probably from the polar opposite of the sources that claim voters who look a certain way are being surpressed because they don't have ID and are wage earners that work 12+ hours straight when the polls are open. Our election procedures could certainly use improvement to raise confidence. The process is secretive and decentralized to the extent that there is reason to wonder if thumbs are on the scales in both directions.

It's rife for conspiracies, which have run rampant in both directions.



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[cdskier]

Lots of people who vote Republican all there lives manage to vote Democrat after they die . It was a tongue and cheek attempt at humor . Big cities are where you find voter fraud problems.

From what credible source did you hear this?

It absolutely happens. Does it happen a lot? Maybe. Maybe not. The problem is we have no idea whether it is a legitimate problem or not because some people are so resistant to any sort of voting reform or checks. Doesn't even have to be dead people voting. It would be insanely easy in my town to vote as someone else since there's no ID required. All you would have to do is know a registered voter's name and what polling location they would be assigned. The book of registered voters simply has a name and a signature. In theory the signature I sign with should match what is in the book (although mine today looks nothing like what they have on file in the book so obviously they don't care or look).

There was also a case in the news in NJ recently where some developer was actually caught paying people for their ballots (or for them to vote for whoever he told them to): https://www.nj.com/hudson/2019/06/jury-finds-hoboken-developer-guilty-in-cash-for-votes-scheme.html

And just because this particular example happens to be of Dems doing it doesn't mean I think it never happens on the other side. I'm sure Repubs are guilty as well. Bottom line is our system has no where near enough integrity.

 

[Not Sure]

Probably from the polar opposite of the sources that claim voters who look a certain way are being surpressed because they don't have ID and are wage earners that work 12+ hours straight when the polls are open. Our election procedures could certainly use improvement to raise confidence. The process is secretive and decentralized to the extent that there is reason to wonder if thumbs are on the scales in both directions.

It's rife for conspiracies, which have run rampant in both directions.



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Well said ! Paper ballots with a printed receipt when you leave !!!!

Video of Bernie getting the shaft from the most honest City in the US .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y30EUNvrIjU

 

[Orca]

Holy crap! Watching the Democratic debate and it's just like an SNL parody. Doubt anyone but Klobuchar could win the general election.

 

[deadheadskier]

There is no perfect voting system. There will always be fraud whether it be illegitimate votes or the capacity to vote being surpressed.

Voter fraud happens everywhere in the world.

Knowing there is some problem in the USA; I ask, do you really believe this fraud has a major impact on our country's direction today? How about 30 years ago? Or 50? Are we better now or back then?

I'd also be curious to hear from people with voter fraud concerns, examples of countries they think have better election integrity than the US and why?




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[cdskier]

There is no perfect voting system. There will always be fraud whether it be illegitimate votes or the capacity to vote being surpressed.

Voter fraud happens everywhere in the world.

Knowing there is some problem in the USA; I ask, do you really believe this fraud has a major impact on our country's direction today? How about 30 years ago? Or 50? Are we better now or back then?

I'd also be curious to hear from people with voter fraud concerns, examples of countries they think have better election integrity than the US and why?




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Even if there is no perfect system, that doesn’t mean you don’t look for opportunities to improve what you have.

Do I believe fraud has an impact? No idea. and that’s the problem.

To be blunt, I don’t care about voting around the world. Don’t know enough about others to know whether it is better or not. But that is irrelevant. Even if ours is the best, that doesn’t mean we should leave it at that when we know it has flaws. Even the best system can still always be better. Let’s use something else as an example. If the best drug in the world for treating some particular diseases is only mediocre and only helps partially, does that mean the company producing that drug should stop additional research into treatments for that disease since they already have the best one? No. They should continue to research to find something better. Even if they only beat their own drug, it is still absolutely worth it. What other companies are doing is irrelevant.


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[Edd]

Even if there is no perfect system, that doesn’t mean you don’t look for opportunities to improve what you have.

Do I believe fraud has an impact? No idea. and that’s the problem.

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Are you similarly concerned about voter suppression?

 

[deadheadskier]

Even if there is no perfect system, that doesn’t mean you don’t look for opportunities to improve what you have.

Do I believe fraud has an impact? No idea. and that’s the problem.

To be blunt, I don’t care about voting around the world. Don’t know enough about others to know whether it is better or not. But that is irrelevant. Even if ours is the best, that doesn’t mean we should leave it at that when we know it has flaws. Even the best system can still always be better. Let’s use something else as an example. If the best drug in the world for treating some particular diseases is only mediocre and only helps partially, does that mean the company producing that drug should stop additional research into treatments for that disease since they already have the best one? No. They should continue to research to find something better. Even if they only beat their own drug, it is still absolutely worth it. What other companies are doing is irrelevant.


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Well, you've kind of made my point. If you don't know the impact of voter fraud, how do you know that the changes you implement will result in more free, open and accurate elections? If you don't know of systems that are better than ours, what do you model these improvements after?

I'm not saying don't look for opportunities to improve, but if you can't accurately quantify the problem, then you can't accurately define what an improvement would look like.



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[cdskier]

I'm not saying don't look for opportunities to improve, but if you can't accurately quantify the problem, then you can't accurately define what an improvement would look like.

How do you accurately quantify a problem that people refuse to put any effort into determining how widespread it is? The numerous examples of voter fraud should be sufficient to say that there IS a problem that needs further investigation.

It also isn't my job or responsibility to determine HOW to fix it.

I do however think simply requiring some form of ID is a very simple solution that would at least somewhat help eliminate basic fraud. And no, I don't think a requirement for an ID should suppress any legitimate votes.