It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont

[VTKilarney]

Re: Trump releasing his tax returns.

There's no upside FOR HIM, of course.

There's never any upside for ANY president. But they all did. Why? Because people demands it.

Trump has proven your statement to be patently false.

 

[Not Sure]

I do however think simply requiring some form of ID is a very simple solution that would at least somewhat help eliminate basic fraud. And no, I don't think a requirement for an ID should suppress any legitimate votes.

Voter ID ...Who's the racist ????

 

[deadheadskier]

How do you accurately quantify a problem that people refuse to put any effort into determining how widespread it is? The numerous examples of voter fraud should be sufficient to say that there IS a problem that needs further investigation.

It also isn't my job or responsibility to determine HOW to fix it.

I do however think simply requiring some form of ID is a very simple solution that would at least somewhat help eliminate basic fraud. And no, I don't think a requirement for an ID should suppress any legitimate votes.

Well, there's been ample opportunity for leaders of any political persuasion over the years to investigate these things. The current President claims he only lost California and New York because of fraud. That's a HUGE claim. Why hasn't this been investigated thoroughly?

What's worse, the actual problem or politicians planting the seed in people's heads that we have this great problem and doing so creates voter apathy? They no longer bother voting because they don't believe their vote counts. Personally, I'd say we have a bigger problem with lack of voter turnout than actual fraud.


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[EPB]

There is no perfect voting system. There will always be fraud whether it be illegitimate votes or the capacity to vote being surpressed.

Voter fraud happens everywhere in the world.

Knowing there is some problem in the USA; I ask, do you really believe this fraud has a major impact on our country's direction today? How about 30 years ago? Or 50? Are we better now or back then?

I'd also be curious to hear from people with voter fraud concerns, examples of countries they think have better election integrity than the US and why?




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No. I should have mentioned that earlier. You'd be crazy to think it hasn't happened with the volume of elections and officials that have worked them. On the flip side, I'd be surprised if true needle-moving fraud has happened and gone totally undetected.

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[cdskier]

Well, there's been ample opportunity for leaders of any political persuasion over the years to investigate these things.

Agreed. I think all parties know it happens and are afraid to fully expose this, hence they just claim fraud but do nothing to investigate it

The current President claims he only lost California and New York because of fraud. That's a HUGE claim. Why hasn't this been investigated thoroughly?

No idea, although he says a lot of crazy things so people are quick to brush it off and ignore it. Even if there was fraud in those 2 places, highly unlikely it would make a difference in his election with how deep blue those 2 states are.

What's worse, the actual problem or politicians planting the seed in people's heads that we have this great problem and doing so creates voter apathy? They no longer bother voting because they don't believe their vote counts. Personally, I'd say we have a bigger problem with lack of voter turnout than actual fraud.

I also agree that voter turnout is unfortunately low and a bigger problem. Doesn't mean we can't work to address both issues though.

 

[Hawk]

I am in the school of thought that every last individual should have a government administered ID that has some form of chip that contains a persons confirmed identity via eye scan, fingerprint or whatever type of technology that can securely prove that you are actually you. This would solve a ton of issues. You need to have this to vote, collect any type of benefits, prove citizenship, collect pay, enter airports, enter government builds, etc. Everything. This will then stop all the BS of people bitching about fraud or tampered election results or people getting some benefit they are not deserved. I have nothing to hide and will be the first to sign up. I am sure that there will be a ton of people with that Big Brother watching us paranoia that will hate this. I say those people have something to hide.

 

[Edd]

I am sure that there will be a ton of people with that Big Brother watching us paranoia that will hate this. I say those people have something to hide.

I’ve met a couple of people who won’t even get an EZ Pass due to privacy concerns, which I found hilarious. Yes, what you describe would be a tough sell, to put it mildly.

 

[cdskier]

Voter ID ...Who's the racist ????

Yup. Nothing at all surprising in that video. Just shows how much some people who have no clue like to think they know what problems other people have or what other people think.

Also agree with Hawk on his ID plan.

And agree with Edd that it would be a tough sell (I also know people that are anti-EZ Pass for the same reasons he mentioned)

 

[bdfreetuna]

It's pretty likely that voter fraud flipped New Hampshire to Hillary in 2016. It was a 2,732 vote margin (for Hillary) but there were found to be about 5,300 out of state votes.

Hopefully Hawk's "eye-scan chip ID" program fails the 4th Amendment test. Why don't we just start with normal voter ID and no hackable polling systems.

 

[EPB]

I’ve met a couple of people who won’t even get an EZ Pass due to privacy concerns, which I found hilarious. Yes, what you describe would be a tough sell, to put it mildly.

Haha I work with a guy like this. When I try to follow the paranoid logic, I come back to idea that the government could probably get way more valuable information from my phone anyway. It's hard to imagine a middle ground where the EZ pass gets you in trouble unless you like to drive 100mph between toll readers.

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[VTKilarney]

I have no problem with the concept that, if you want to participate in the government, you need some sort of identification. For example, if you want to vote, receive public assistance, drive on the roads, etc.

 

[bdfreetuna]

I think part of the logic for EZ Pass was that you could always take alternate roads if you didn't want to use it. So nobody was "forced" to participate in the program.

Same would not be said for microchip ID's with retina scanners, and really what would be the need for such an intrusive form of ID straight out of a dystopian sci-fi novel? Back to Voter ID issue I believe any form of government-issued ID should be accepted. Ultimately that's the best moderate solution for those who are concerned about voter access (on the other hand).

 

[Hawk]

It's pretty likely that voter fraud flipped New Hampshire to Hillary in 2016. It was a 2,732 vote margin (for Hillary) but there were found to be about 5,300 out of state votes.

Hopefully Hawk's "eye-scan chip ID" program fails the 4th Amendment test. Why don't we just start with normal voter ID and no hackable polling systems.

Why would you hope it fails? It would solve everything including illegal immigration.

 

[deadheadskier]

It's pretty likely that voter fraud flipped New Hampshire to Hillary in 2016. It was a 2,732 vote margin (for Hillary) but there were found to be about 5,300 out of state votes.

Hopefully Hawk's "eye-scan chip ID" program fails the 4th Amendment test. Why don't we just start with normal voter ID and no hackable polling systems.

5300 people were prosecuted for voter fraud in NH from the 2016 election?

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[bdfreetuna]

5300 people were prosecuted for voter fraud in NH from the 2016 election?

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Yeah right. This is the most unbiased report I could find on it though. I guess the number was more like 6,540 out of staters.

https://www.wmur.com/article/new-vo...ut-of-state-drivers-licenses-as-ids/12196129#

Why would you hope it fails? It would solve everything including illegal immigration.

No other way to fix immigration besides biometric IDs with retinal scanners? I guess I prefer our society to take a different approach to population management than say, China or even cities like London.

There are legitimate reasons for privacy other than paranoia, which is why it's considered a natural/God-given right in the USA.

 

[AdironRider]

I don't necessarily think voter ID laws are good or bad really. I have more of a problem with mail in and notably "ballot harvesting", where people just get to round up as many ballots as they want and turn them in, just trust us, they are all legit. Please, I'm sorry, but ballot harvesting is pure fraud, plain and simple, and it is right out in the open. There is no doubt in my mind this played a role in several SoCal house seats turning blue during the past midterms.

You want to vote, show up and vote. You can't get fired and I have yet to see a polling place that wasn't open for less than 10 hours, aka work isn't an excuse.

But holy hell, no way am I signing up for mandatory ID with retina scans and whatever else you guys are suggesting. No way that couldn't be used for far more nefarious purposes than voter fraud.....

In terms of VT, my wife and I looked at a couple farms last fall near Middlebury. We've been lucky to do well in real estate out here and think it would be a great way to move onto the next chapter of our lives. They were admittantly decent sized places in the upper six figures (which they have to be to make a living today), but the taxes were insane. Even with ag exemptions the taxes ranged from 16 to 39k! Forty freaking grand literally makes it impossible for that farm to be profitable.

 

[kbroderick]

Yeah right. This is the most unbiased report I could find on it though. I guess the number was more like 6,540 out of staters.

https://www.wmur.com/article/new-vo...ut-of-state-drivers-licenses-as-ids/12196129#

The number was 6,540 people with out-of-state licenses, which doesn't equate to not living in New Hampshire at the time. College students—a perennial source of Republican angst, as they tend to tilt liberal—can (generally) vote where they attend school, but often don't switch driver's licenses immediately (if at all), given that the cost to do so is non-trivial when you have textbooks and beer to buy. Over 1,000 of those 6,540 people had switched licenses by the time the article was written, and another 213 had registered vehicles (but apparently not switched their licenses). Having the state follow up on the other 5,200 names and seek to determine if they actually resided in New Hampshire at the time of registration seems like a worthwhile effort (starting with a cross-reference against university enrollment records), but nothing reported there supports a claim that there was needle-moving fraud.

They did flag 200 possible cases of voting in two states, which is both (a) more problematic if it happened in significant numbers and (b) statistically insignificant.

I will readily agree that the systems for notifying your previous place of voting should be improved, as I've received notifications years after moving that I'm being removed from the rolls in my previous locale, but nothing in that article suggests there's any actual needle-moving fraud going on.

 

[deadheadskier]

But what about the dozens of busses worth of Mass residents that were brought here to vote on George Soros's dime?



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[bdfreetuna]

If you want a clear case of "needle-moving" voter fraud, just take a look at Philadelphia. Most of the fraud happens in liberal stronghold cities involving bussing / repeat voting and corrupt ballot handling. Go search the web, Philly can't even hold a minor election without officials getting arrested.

Then we have Broward County, Florida which can't ever seem to properly count votes, another swing state put in jeopardy

And in a state that's such a battleground it certainly can tip the balance.

California doesn't even try to hide it
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...nted-immigrants-vote-school-elections-n893221

13% of Illegal Aliens in California admit they vote? 13% of ~4 million is a LOT. Even if the number is half this it would be shocking. Seems like something most people wouldn't admit too.

http://www.capoliticalreview.com/capoliticalnewsandviews/poll-13-of-illegal-aliens-admit-they-vote/

 

[abc]

I have nothing to hide

...from the CURRENT government.

The concept of limiting the power of government, designed by our founding fathers, was for in case of a rogue government with a dictator as the president took hold. Like Germany in the 30's, or Russia, or China, (hmmm... Hong Kong to be exact).

Literally, the founding fathers wanted to leave plenty of room for "the people" to rise up against such rogue government. Well, given the constitution was conceived right after we overthrown the British overlord, it made perfect sense then. Perhaps some might argue that concept is outdated?:roll: We should let our government know everything about us?

We trust the government will have all our best interest in mind, don't we? Nothing to hide.