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It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont
- Thread starter Orca
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raisingarizona
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
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How millennial liberal of you, freedom when it’s convenient and agreeable for you!
MEtoVTSkier
Active member
...and a Starter jacket? :lol:
RIGHT! Nobody has said anything about Starter Jackets lately! :lol:
abc
Well-known member
Is the ski season so bad everyone is bitching about the politics of Vermont in January?
Or perhaps THAT is the real problem for Vermont, that the skiing had gone... steadily downhill?
Or perhaps THAT is the real problem for Vermont, that the skiing had gone... steadily downhill?
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
It's worse than that, because Sanders' plans are complete financial fairy tales & mathematically impossible.
Sanders breathlessly convinces the naive that America can have all this "free" stuff if we just increase taxes on "the richest" Americans, which is a total lie.
The reality is even if you rounded-up all of those rich people he speaks of & confiscated all their money & sold-off all of their assets, it still wouldn't pay for all of Sanders' plan. Sanders is a total fraud; the millionaire "Socialist" with 3 houses who made millions from Capitalism.
As Margaret Thatcher said, "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
The two things we all have in common - liberty and freedom.
Without those two there are no choices. We got a good cross-representation on this forum for almost all.
Try having a business with no ,er 'Republicans'. Or none who believe in community collectivism. Gotta have both for most, right?
We have a ( somewhat) conservative state ( NH) next to a pretty progressive one. One has higher mountains and much more hiking/climbing and the other one has better snow, generally more challlenging terrain.( inbounds anyway)
One has 1.3M people and the other half that. One has no billboards and the other a sh**show of them. Live free or die.
If the nation goes toward more government funded programs we all lose - thats my take - one size does not fit all.
The real problem long term is our ( oh boy here comes that word) 'collective greed' - I'm a Boomer, and many here are X or Millenials and I bet even a few from the Greatest G.
Long term liability is going to crush every city and town, state and the nation. Think we all want more and pretend we have the money to pay for it - especially when it's someone else's.
Socialism has never worked anywhere - except a few places like the 1st church in Acts - for a simple reason - it was all voluntary. Thats why many here like the VT community action - lots of very caring people willing to give time and money and if they don't have the money - more time and energy. Mad River Valley is amazing like that.
My taxes have doubled since purchasing a house there 17 years ago. Its not my primary home - that one? 400% in 35 years but a school system that beats most in the country. And I have 5 kids. I got bang for the buck. Cheaper than private school.
I have the freedom to raise the rent when I don't use it to pay for it. I have the liberty to move if I don't like MA. ( But like BGomez says - that RE bubble can't last forever)
If healthcare is a right - and it isn't - shouldn't food, clothing, and shelter come 1st?
We have the best healthcare in the world ( stop with the statistics that others have better - they don't - when the wealthy have issues they fly to Boston- and a few other places in the US.) Most European drug companies purchase US companies so they can keep some profits and get some new drugs developed w less government interference - soon that won't be true either. No potential profits, no large scale investments on risky drugs. ( truehealthcarefacts.com)
We're spending our kids and grandkids $$ and some of us pay and others take.
10% pay 80% of all federal income taxes and somewhere around 40-45% pay nothing or worse - get tax credits back.
A sharp Communist put it this way ' When the government robs Peter to pay Paul, it is sure to have the suport of Paul.' GB Shaw I think.
Since we still have freedom NY/CA and a couple others are losing population - especially if you discount illegal immigrants. Beautiful places. But too expensive becoming more dangerous, and lack of the rule of law. They are going to flat f'ugly places like Florida too! Imagine? I can't.
And the debt looms. . . . . both parties at fault there - back to the greed I'm guilty of as well - even though I wouldn't support candidates who spend what we don't have. Dont have much of a choice most times.
Since 2014 each quarter saw record income to the Treasury. What is the problem? Its not lack of $$ its lack of accountability like most of us have each month. Take home $3/$5/$7/$10K, spend 90% of that and you'll be ok.
Take in $4.4 T and spend $5.5T? Only a matter of time.
A government large enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.
Cute but true. That's indentured servitude. Taking half of your income? Rome, Athens, heck California.
Without those two there are no choices. We got a good cross-representation on this forum for almost all.
Try having a business with no ,er 'Republicans'. Or none who believe in community collectivism. Gotta have both for most, right?
We have a ( somewhat) conservative state ( NH) next to a pretty progressive one. One has higher mountains and much more hiking/climbing and the other one has better snow, generally more challlenging terrain.( inbounds anyway)
One has 1.3M people and the other half that. One has no billboards and the other a sh**show of them. Live free or die.
If the nation goes toward more government funded programs we all lose - thats my take - one size does not fit all.
The real problem long term is our ( oh boy here comes that word) 'collective greed' - I'm a Boomer, and many here are X or Millenials and I bet even a few from the Greatest G.
Long term liability is going to crush every city and town, state and the nation. Think we all want more and pretend we have the money to pay for it - especially when it's someone else's.
Socialism has never worked anywhere - except a few places like the 1st church in Acts - for a simple reason - it was all voluntary. Thats why many here like the VT community action - lots of very caring people willing to give time and money and if they don't have the money - more time and energy. Mad River Valley is amazing like that.
My taxes have doubled since purchasing a house there 17 years ago. Its not my primary home - that one? 400% in 35 years but a school system that beats most in the country. And I have 5 kids. I got bang for the buck. Cheaper than private school.
I have the freedom to raise the rent when I don't use it to pay for it. I have the liberty to move if I don't like MA. ( But like BGomez says - that RE bubble can't last forever)
If healthcare is a right - and it isn't - shouldn't food, clothing, and shelter come 1st?
We have the best healthcare in the world ( stop with the statistics that others have better - they don't - when the wealthy have issues they fly to Boston- and a few other places in the US.) Most European drug companies purchase US companies so they can keep some profits and get some new drugs developed w less government interference - soon that won't be true either. No potential profits, no large scale investments on risky drugs. ( truehealthcarefacts.com)
We're spending our kids and grandkids $$ and some of us pay and others take.
10% pay 80% of all federal income taxes and somewhere around 40-45% pay nothing or worse - get tax credits back.
A sharp Communist put it this way ' When the government robs Peter to pay Paul, it is sure to have the suport of Paul.' GB Shaw I think.
Since we still have freedom NY/CA and a couple others are losing population - especially if you discount illegal immigrants. Beautiful places. But too expensive becoming more dangerous, and lack of the rule of law. They are going to flat f'ugly places like Florida too! Imagine? I can't.
And the debt looms. . . . . both parties at fault there - back to the greed I'm guilty of as well - even though I wouldn't support candidates who spend what we don't have. Dont have much of a choice most times.
Since 2014 each quarter saw record income to the Treasury. What is the problem? Its not lack of $$ its lack of accountability like most of us have each month. Take home $3/$5/$7/$10K, spend 90% of that and you'll be ok.
Take in $4.4 T and spend $5.5T? Only a matter of time.
A government large enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take everything you have.
Cute but true. That's indentured servitude. Taking half of your income? Rome, Athens, heck California.
Literally published today, 38 minutes ago:
"Montpelier, January 7, 2020 — As the legislature convenes today in Montpelier, there are many legislative initiatives that will increase the cost of doing business and hinder the owner’s ability to operate and to succeed. NFIB, representing hundreds of small businesses across the state, will be closely monitoring these bills and explaining the consequences to lawmakers. More than half of the Vermont workforce is employed by small businesses (63.3%), and there are 77,615 small businesses in the state.
“The Legislature needs to be laser-focused on policies that lead to economic growth, rather than adding more costs for Vermont’s small business sector,”said Shawn Shouldice, state director of NFIB in Vermont. “The conversations about expanding paid leave funded with a payroll tax, artificially increasing Vermont’s base wage, double-digit property tax increases, fuel taxes and higher health insurance premiums have our members very concerned.”
“With more and more Vermonters seeking greener pastures, placing more financial pressure on the state’s small businesses is endangering job creation and the ability for workers to meet their financial needs,” added Shouldice."
-- VTDigger, 7 January 2020
"Montpelier, January 7, 2020 — As the legislature convenes today in Montpelier, there are many legislative initiatives that will increase the cost of doing business and hinder the owner’s ability to operate and to succeed. NFIB, representing hundreds of small businesses across the state, will be closely monitoring these bills and explaining the consequences to lawmakers. More than half of the Vermont workforce is employed by small businesses (63.3%), and there are 77,615 small businesses in the state.
“The Legislature needs to be laser-focused on policies that lead to economic growth, rather than adding more costs for Vermont’s small business sector,”said Shawn Shouldice, state director of NFIB in Vermont. “The conversations about expanding paid leave funded with a payroll tax, artificially increasing Vermont’s base wage, double-digit property tax increases, fuel taxes and higher health insurance premiums have our members very concerned.”
“With more and more Vermonters seeking greener pastures, placing more financial pressure on the state’s small businesses is endangering job creation and the ability for workers to meet their financial needs,” added Shouldice."
-- VTDigger, 7 January 2020
"Despite a soaring stock market and strong GDP growth, many Vermonters are still struggling to make ends meet. High taxes, skyrocketing insurance premiums, escalating utility costs, and more, are keeping many stuck in a crisis of affordability. At the same time, small businesses that have been the bedrock of our towns and villages are struggling with excessive regulations, a labor force shortage, and intense competition from tax-friendly states like New Hampshire. It is no wonder so many Vermonters are leaving our state."
-- Rep. Pattie McCoy, VTDigger, 6 January 2020
-- Rep. Pattie McCoy, VTDigger, 6 January 2020
And yet the legislature will not respond to these concerns. In fact, Sen. Anthony Pollina is convinced that Vermont needs a $300 million "green new deal" that will be paid for by...wait for it...the 5,000 "rich" people in Vermont. Let me put it this way...that is asking essentially the population of a small town to subsidize a huge new program. That is not sustainable.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
One of the more irrational aspects of liberalism is their failure to understand that human beings are not rooted like vegetation.
And many of the "rich" people are highly portable. I intend to retire, at least for a while, in my Vermont house. That would change on a dime. I deeply suspect I would be a "rich" person. I grew up, at times, in relative poverty and just paid off my last student loan (law degree) two years ago, at age 62. Polina's scheme would attempt to extract an extra $60,000 from each "rich" person. For me, that would just instigate a move.
fbrissette
Well-known member
Basically, you are saying that the US has the best healthcare system in the world, as long as we disregard any objective measure of performance. By objective measures I mean things like infant mortality rates, life expectency, morbidity rate, and despite spending twice as much as the average of developed countries.
If you are rich, or have a very good insurance plan through your job, your health care system is indeed excellent (I've experienced it when living in Houston), otherwise it absolutely sucks.
Bingo. If just ten people left, or died, that would screw up everything.
I still will never forget the news article from about ten years ago or so with the State relieved that its budget was balanced...by the mere fact that one rich person died and the estate taxes saved them!
Is the ski season so bad everyone is bitching about the politics of Vermont in January?
Or perhaps THAT is the real problem for Vermont, that the skiing had gone... steadily downhill?
Bitching? I think that there has been a good discussion of some serious issues. And my ski season, at 18 days so far, has been pretty damn good!
Yeah, I agree. It seems that this issue demonstrates how our society is just so polarized and can no longer solve big problems. The biggest problem with Obamacare? The fact that the Republicans never bought into it and have spent 10 years destroying it.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
The "biggest problem with Obamacare", is that its' problems were intentional.
Obamacare failures were not bugs, but features.
Obamacare failures were not bugs, but features.
kingslug
Well-known member
That gets a ...yup
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