Jay Peak Conceptual Development Plan (2011-2016)

[BigJay]

It will be easy to identify a Stateside regular in December 2013: they be the ones wandering around looking really lost and confused. I am sure the new lodge will be nice but I am not looking forward to the first few visits. After a lifetime of skiing at Jay, I have a certain routine, as I am every other Jay regular does. You put your skis on the same rack, go in the same door, sit at the same table, chat with pretty much the same people, hang your bag on the same hook, and so on. It is very comforting. Now, there will be new territory to stake out, new patterns to learn, and a whole new way of living at Jay. We'll figure it out but these dogs aren't good at new tricks.

The new Jay 3.0... Change is good... Right? Don't want to loose the vibe and tailgate like today...
...part of why we've been there forever...

 

[dlague]

It will be easy to identify a Stateside regular in December 2013: they be the ones wandering around looking really lost and confused. I am sure the new lodge will be nice but I am not looking forward to the first few visits. After a lifetime of skiing at Jay, I have a certain routine, as I am every other Jay regular does. You put your skis on the same rack, go in the same door, sit at the same table, chat with pretty much the same people, hang your bag on the same hook, and so on. It is very comforting. Now, there will be new territory to stake out, new patterns to learn, and a whole new way of living at Jay. We'll figure it out but these dogs aren't good at new tricks.

Right on! We were like that when the Tramside was being built out! The old land marks were changing! However, the original Tram building is still in the same place which is where we have always gone to gear up! If it is open, we often sneak into the Intl' Room to gear up and have the whole room to ourselves!

 

[dlague]

I feel like I need to get something out there! There is talk about Jay peak being ruined - When the first changes came along (THL and a few other things), I did not really notice. Then they added phase II (Water Park and Hotel Jay) I have to say I still did ot really notice with the exception of everything looking different on the Tram side. I am pretty sure when the Stateside changes are in place, I will ski there and probably not really notice all that much since I typically have always gone to the Tram side.

I personally go there to ski and my family (wife and kids all still love Jay Peak). We do not generally stay there and we are day trippers - the buildings are used to change, eat and drink and that has been a great improvement!

So when people say it is ruined - the skiing is still the same and looks to improve! Just don't hang out in the building as much and you will never know!

 

[fbrissette]

I feel like I need to get something out there! There is talk about Jay peak being ruined - When the first changes came along (THL and a few other things), I did not really notice. Then they added phase II (Water Park and Hotel Jay) I have to say I still did ot really notice with the exception of everything looking different on the Tram side. I am pretty sure when the Stateside changes are in place, I will ski there and probably not really notice all that much since I typically have always gone to the Tram side.

I personally go there to ski and my family (wife and kids all still love Jay Peak). We do not generally stay there and we are day trippers - the buildings are used to change, eat and drink and that has been a great improvement!

So when people say it is ruined - the skiing is still the same and looks to improve! Just don't hang out in the building as much and you will never know!

I care very little about what they do outside of skiing. Fact is that the Stateside building is old and decrepit and I am happy it will be gone. I just disagree with 'the skiing is still the same' part. The water park, ice rink and new hotels have been very successful for Jay. They are bringing a lot more people on the hill and it has been quite obvious over the last 4 years. So while this success is good for the long term viability of the resort, it has in fact undoubtedly had an effect on the skiing by putting more people on the hill, and this has a real impact, no matter how Steve is spinning this. Yep, the lift lines are still reasonable, but Saturday lines are getting up to par with many other resorts. Snow is getting tracked quicker.

There was a huge increase in traffic this year compared to last year. Lines extending outside the ropes are now common on saturday on the Flyer whereas they were a fairly rare occurrence before. You used to be able to get on the Tram with little to no wait after 2PM on Saturdays. 45 minutes wait for the tram is now very common until late Saturday afternoon.

The new hotel and new condos will bring even more people to the slopes. To be fair, the increase is not as bad as I expected since a lot of the additional traffic is diverted to the waterpark, especially on cold days, but the additional traffic on the ski hill is clear and undeniable, especially on nice days. I would love to see the evolution in the number of skier days over the last 4 years.

The skiing is still great and Jay peak is still an awesome mountain, but the skiing experience is somewhat being diminished. This is why we need the West bowl.

 

[riverc0il]

I will back up fbrissette on this one. Not a pass holder but I still get to Jay about a half dozen times a year. It tracks out noticeably faster than four years ago. Places I used to always rely on as "sure shots" are often times pounded faster than more obvious lines. You definitely don't get as much powder as you used to since it is being spread around. More people are out there sacking the goods. Which is fine, you would expect that with more people on the mountain. But the skiing product has definitely decreased in value since it gets hit harder. Not only have the on mountain amenities been increased but day tickets dropped and early bird season pass prices are still really low for a mountain of Jay's quality plus I am sure many are drawn by the Burke add on and Burkie's probably added on as well. The six pack will further impact condition degradation speed. Next year should be interesting and I'll be watching closely as I plan on jumping back into the season pass market for 2014-2015. At this point, I have no idea if I'll go back to Jay or not... something I couldn't believe I would have written a few years ago when I dropped my pass to play the field and ski a bunch of new to me mountains.

 

[dmw]

Slightly off topic, but I had asked in another thread if you guys knew about orange tree markings I spotted - I was back and got a picture this weekend. This was somewhere in Andre's/Beaver, and you can see another marked tree in the upper right background.

 

[BigJay]

Limit between state foest and jpr land... That's how it's marked in a lot of places. They have acquired that part i believe.

 

[dmw]

That makes sense - thanks.

 

[Steve@jpr]

Spun out.

Not saying, at all, that our lift ticket sales haven't increased this year (they have, and they have each of the past 8 out of 10 seasons as Riv partially suggests) only that, and this is a matter of subjectivity, they haven't increased to the point where the mtn experience, wait times or overall have become an issue relative to what most would be considered tolerable. I agree, you'll see spots get tracked quicker, but I'm not sure any of us could have expected to grow the business without seeing this happen to some extent--same goes for lift lines. I was on the hill nearly every Saturday this year and I will say, the Saturday I was at Okemo for my daughter's snowboard race, dwarfed anything I saw at Jay Peak. I have the data that supports waterparkers and hockey players are not buying lift tickets so your suggestion that this new index is clogging up your fun, isn't supported with actual metrics. What I think is happening is some level of cannibalization from other resorts by virtue of weather proofing and lots of media impressions. We'll see, over the next several seasons, whether this is one (or two) and done, or it's sustainable at any level; I hope it is. What I think is connected here is that a certain expectation bar has been set (relative to acceptable wait times for sure) at Jay Peak that is predicated off of past experiences. This is understandable for sure. I think that plays into how people define a wait time to be egregious or the amount of time tracks are expected to be fresh. It will be an interesting few seasons ahead for sure.

I care very little about what they do outside of skiing. Fact is that the Stateside building is old and decrepit and I am happy it will be gone. I just disagree with 'the skiing is still the same' part. The water park, ice rink and new hotels have been very successful for Jay. They are bringing a lot more people on the hill and it has been quite obvious over the last 4 years. So while this success is good for the long term viability of the resort, it has in fact undoubtedly had an effect on the skiing by putting more people on the hill, and this has a real impact, no matter how Steve is spinning this. Yep, the lift lines are still reasonable, but Saturday lines are getting up to par with many other resorts. Snow is getting tracked quicker.

There was a huge increase in traffic this year compared to last year. Lines extending outside the ropes are now common on saturday on the Flyer whereas they were a fairly rare occurrence before. You used to be able to get on the Tram with little to no wait after 2PM on Saturdays. 45 minutes wait for the tram is now very common until late Saturday afternoon.

The new hotel and new condos will bring even more people to the slopes. To be fair, the increase is not as bad as I expected since a lot of the additional traffic is diverted to the waterpark, especially on cold days, but the additional traffic on the ski hill is clear and undeniable, especially on nice days. I would love to see the evolution in the number of skier days over the last 4 years.

The skiing is still great and Jay peak is still an awesome mountain, but the skiing experience is somewhat being diminished. This is why we need the West bowl.

 

[riverc0il]

One thing I'll be interested to see is if the high speed six relieves lines on the Jet. We all know that the average skier loves high speed lifts (goodness knows how many people still ride the freezer). If the average skier has to pick between a fixed grip and a high speed, they are going to get their face blown off for sure. Might mean that traffic at the Jet goes down. Which serves my purposes quite well... raid a few high speed powder laps and chew up the powder 50% faster on the Bonnie and then head over to the Jet when joe average family skier is just getting outta bed. Ski untracked and uncrowded Jet for hours while everyone rides the Bonnie outta the new hotel. Might work. And goodness knows more lift holds on the Bonnie also suits me just fine. Much as with most change, there will be ways to take advantage of new unintended benefits.

 

[thetrailboss]

I will be interested to see if the new lift has wind problems.

 

[BenedictGomez]

They are bringing a lot more people on the hill and it has been quite obvious over the last 4 years. So while this success is good for the long term viability of the resort, it has in fact undoubtedly had an effect on the skiing by putting more people on the hill, and this has a real impact, no matter how Steve is spinning this. Yep, the lift lines are still reasonable, but Saturday lines are getting up to par with many other resorts. Snow is getting tracked quicker.

There was a huge increase in traffic this year compared to last year. Lines extending outside the ropes are now common on saturday on the Flyer whereas they were a fairly rare occurrence before. You used to be able to get on the Tram with little to no wait after 2PM on Saturdays. 45 minutes wait for the tram is now very common until late Saturday afternoon.

The simple solution to this if this trend continues and it becomes problematic with the crowding, is to simply increase lift ticket prices. They'll make up the $ in the higher prices what they'll lose in volume. Of course, that's an obvious negative too as nobody wants to pay more, especially not the oldtimers and loyalists.

What I think is happening is some level of cannibalization from other resorts by virtue of weather proofing and lots of media impressions. We'll see, over the next several seasons, whether this is one (or two) and done, or it's sustainable at any level; I hope it is.

It seems to me it's twofold:

1) Many people want to come see all the shiny new stuff they've heard about. It's my perception that there have been a lot more people at Jay Peak with trail maps in their hands (so to speak) the last few years. If true, this "boost" will be temporary and probably only last 3 or 4 years.

2) I think the intense marketing to the Montreal and broader Quebec market has definitely paid dividends. It sometimes seems as if it's English, and not French, that is the second language spoken at Jay Peak. While there were always Quebecois at Jay due to the close proximity to Canada, it's dramatically noticeable now.

 

[BigJay]

I feel there is less... Somehow feel we're invaded by massachusset!

 

[BigJay]

One thing I'll be interested to see is if the high speed six relieves lines on the Jet. We all know that the average skier loves high speed lifts (goodness knows how many people still ride the freezer). If the average skier has to pick between a fixed grip and a high speed, they are going to get their face blown off for sure. Might mean that traffic at the Jet goes down. Which serves my purposes quite well... raid a few high speed powder laps and chew up the powder 50% faster on the Bonnie and then head over to the Jet when joe average family skier is just getting outta bed. Ski untracked and uncrowded Jet for hours while everyone rides the Bonnie outta the new hotel. Might work. And goodness knows more lift holds on the Bonnie also suits me just fine. Much as with most change, there will be ways to take advantage of new unintended benefits.

Won't happen. I'll still be ripping the Jet early...

 

[from_the_NEK]

Built a model for the Powerline base terminal and chair barn.


View from the new Stateside Bar.

View coming back from the Jet.

 

[vermonter]

This may just be me, or does it seem that the storage barn for the chairs is blocking access from the lodge. It looks, if I'm envisioning this right, that skiers will have to traverse up a tad then come back down on the other side to access the lift.

Seems kind of funky to me.

 

[from_the_NEK]

The pictures above are using the elevations in Google Earth. The installation of the new lift will include a lot of regrading of that area. The chair storage building and the Lift terminal will be on the same elevation when it is finished. The nice thing about the chair barn is that it should block the wind while you are standing in line.

 

[thetrailboss]

So Bonaventure is definitely going?

 

[BigJay]

The pictures above are using the elevations in Google Earth. The installation of the new lift will include a lot of regrading of that area. The chair storage building and the Lift terminal will be on the same elevation when it is finished. The nice thing about the chair barn is that it should block the wind while you are standing in line.

...exactly like the old barn for the. Bonnie double.

 

[JPTracker]

Even though it appears to not make sense, serious rumours about the 6 pack not happening this year are floating around. I specifically asked Steve about this in the 'conceptual plan' thread and he did not address the question. There are a few hypothesis about why it would be delayed, but one thing is sure, we'll know soon.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using AlpineZone mobile app

I also heard the rumor that they missed the deadline for signing the contract for the new lift for delivery for next season. I kind of dismissed it because it just doesn't make sense to not do it now. I know most of the towers need to be removed by helicopter but what doesn't make sense is why did they leave the cable in place? Also why were the chairs and drive put in the maintenance parking lot just below the Jet. I would have thought that these would have been put out in their graveyard for storage and later use in the West Bowl and out of the way of all the construction for the new hotel / baselodge.

Or are they really going to replace the Jet triple with the Bonnie like the original plan called for.