from_the_NEK
Active member
I think the angle of that picture makes it look long. It is actually only about 193' longer than the Jet Triple. Crossover=3519' vs Jet=3326'
The Metro quad is 2870'.
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Jay Peak Conceptual Development Plan (2011-2016)
- Thread starter JPTracker
- Start date
I think the angle of that picture makes it look long. It is actually only about 193' longer than the Jet Triple. Crossover=3519' vs Jet=3326'
The Metro quad is 2870'.
BigJay
New member
Here's the thing: that lift doesn't need to go and bushwack it's way to the flyer if it's not to connect to stateside. Why not just stop at Ullr's Dream... Ok, i get it, you want those riding the magic-carpet-step-up-quad to access the west bowl... Ok, then, put it at the bottom of Ullr's and Deer Run.
My view on this would be: Run a lift that is USEFULL. Make it go slightly below Racer and Exhibition and cut a traverse to Perry Merril so that we can go back to stateside and avoid DisneyLand. We don't need the slow climb on the Metro Quad... we need to go back to stateside and have a Grande Latte (cause i guess that's what's waiting for us next year...) when the flyer is closed due to wind.
I don't know if Jay thinks of the patterns skier use when the ski/ride the mountain and how long traverse can be achieved when working with the land... You can start off the Jet and ride under the flyer in the same run... And you can start off the Flyer and finish the bottom of UN in a single run as well. With the West Bowl, we will need to have efficient way of traveling from side to side... adding more people on the Metro Quad isn't a good thing when the Flyer isn't spinning... it's already a zoo on tramside when everything is on wind hold.
My view on this would be: Run a lift that is USEFULL. Make it go slightly below Racer and Exhibition and cut a traverse to Perry Merril so that we can go back to stateside and avoid DisneyLand. We don't need the slow climb on the Metro Quad... we need to go back to stateside and have a Grande Latte (cause i guess that's what's waiting for us next year...) when the flyer is closed due to wind.
I don't know if Jay thinks of the patterns skier use when the ski/ride the mountain and how long traverse can be achieved when working with the land... You can start off the Jet and ride under the flyer in the same run... And you can start off the Flyer and finish the bottom of UN in a single run as well. With the West Bowl, we will need to have efficient way of traveling from side to side... adding more people on the Metro Quad isn't a good thing when the Flyer isn't spinning... it's already a zoo on tramside when everything is on wind hold.
fbrissette
Well-known member
I'm with you 100%. Either place it at the bottom of Ull'r so you can pretty much walk to it from Tramside, or place it higher up so we can ski straight toward Stateside. The actual positioning forces you up the metro quad to get there and on the way back. Let's face it, unless you are a beginner, the ultra slow metro quad is to be avoided at all costs.
Now you understand why all of us Sugarbush skiers didn't miss the Metro Quad, F/K/A the Green Mountain Quad.
Wasn't it known as "The Slug" over at Sugarbush?
fbrissette
Well-known member
I'd put money on the slug over the metro quad.
Plowboy
Member
Yes, the "Green Mountain Slug"
Yessir! You can have it...slow drive and all! That was one of ASC'S brilliant ideas...take out existing HSQ, install slow lift, end early and late season downloading at Mount Ellen, and force folks to ride three lifts to get to the top instead of two! Way to kill it!
I rode it in 2002-2003 when it debuted at Jay and laughed at all the Sugarbush stickers that were still on the safety bars.
from_the_NEK
Active member
IMHO, skier patterns will change significantly when/if the West Bowl opens. Especially on a windhold day.
On a regular wind hold day when the Tram and Flyer are down, the Jet, Bonnie, and West Bowl would still be open. If you are on Stateside and you wanted to get to the West Bowl, you would take the Boonie up and ski down to the transfer lift. Or hike up to the Flyer and ski down via the connector trail that comes off the ridge above BBP. Getting back to Stateside would require riding the transfer lift and then the Metro. This is the same procedure for a regular day too, except that to get back to Stateside you could ride the Freezer/or the tram and get a decent long run in while your at it.
On a bad windhold day when both the Bonnie and/or Jet are down (rare) and you are staying at the Stateside hotel, you could either just drive over (shuttles?) to the West Bowl or take the Taxi Quad up, ski over to the Metro, then down to the transfer lift. You would have to do it this way even if the Tramside end of the transfer lift was closer to the top of the Metro quad. Going back to Stateside would require that extra Metro ride (unless you drove/shuttled).
Honest question, during a windhold day, how many times do you think you would actually be going back and forth between base areas?
In the picture below the Purple line is the transfer lift as shown on the master plan. The Pink line would have the Tramside station located where Ullr's comes out above the Freezer and the Green line has the station located just below the tree island at the convergence of Exhibition and Racer.
The Pink Option -
Pros:
1. Potential for a moderately walk to the lift from the Tram Haus/Hotel Jay.(600 ft from Tram building, 60 ft vert)
2. Interferes with the fewest number of exisiting trails.
Cons:
1. Hard to pull off in terms of environmental permitting (lots of stream/wetland crossings).
2. Proximity to the snowmaking pond may be an issue
3. Need to reconfigure the West Bowl base area building layout.
4. Longest liftride of the three options (4038 ft)
5. People walking up the middle of Harmony Lane to get to the lift.
Green Option -
Pros:
1. Potential for a short u 460' 34' vert hike to be able to ski back to Stateside. You can't really get this lift any closer due to the Flyer. Cutting a traverse trail would be difficult due to a fairly significant stream valley to skiers left of the metro quad. Trying to locate the terminal higher would cut into the bottom of North Glade more significantly and make for more of a cluster as people come bombing down of of Exhibition and Racer.
Cons:
1. Could cause traffic issues having a lift upload at a trail junction. Do you really want a "Slow skiing" area added there?
2. Would have to walk to actually make the traverse. Even bridging the stream valley would make for a flat traverse at best.
Purple Option -
Pros:
1. Shortest ride at 3556'
2. Unload area doesn't interefere with trail flow much.
Cons:
1. Cuts through Bushwacker glade
2. May require riding the Metro quad a bit more often depending on senario.
ScottySkis
Well-known member
That explains it. I wondered why the chairs their were slow. Why did ASC claim it was better for slow chairs, makes no sense to me.
ss20
Well-known member
That explains it. I wondered why the chairs their were slow. Why did ASC claim it was better for slow chairs, makes no sense to me.
Capacity. Slower chair gives you less of a gap between chairs. More people going up.
fbrissette
Well-known member
????? Double the gap and double the speed, you have the same capacity. Obviously, at some point a fixed grip going too fast will create loading problems but this particular chair is absolutely crazy slow. When the tram and flyer are down, they would need the added capacity of a detachable.
fbrissette
Well-known member
Very interesting analysis. It very likely explains why they planned the lift on the purple lime even though it is not optimal from a skiing point of view.
As to your question about travelling between base areas I'd say that experts travel one or twice at best per day. There are simply not that many interesting routes so that it would make sense. The intermediate might travel more since some of the best intermediate runs are traversing (Northway, Vermonter, Angel Wiggle). Typically I will ski a couple of hours on stateside and move on after an early lunch. I would likely end up on the west bowl later in the day after the crowds have moved in on stateside and tramside.
On a regular windhold day you don't have to walk all the way to the flyer to access the Ullr bowl. You can skate 30 seconds, traverse hard left through upper everglade and get to the connector through wedelmater. There will be no way to avoid the metro chair coming back. If I end up my day in the West Bowl, I will very likely have an additional run there and take the shuttle rather than waste time hitting the transfer lift and metro quad back to the condo.
from_the_NEK
Active member
It will be interesting to see what skier traffic patterns develop if/when the West Bowl is built. It maybe that is where the majority of the intermediate skiers end up up hanging out for most of the day to due to what should be better intermediate terrain than the main mountain. However, the large swaths of glades should allow you some solitude, especially the "hike-to" one on the far skier's left.
Yeah, I historically haven't taken the Wedelmaster option on wind hold days since it wastes a lot of vertical. I'd rather put in the extra effort to hit Poma Line or drifts along the side of Ullrs. However, if my objective was to get to the West Bowl the Wedelmaster option would definitely get used more.
I agree on the end of the day shuttle back to Stateside. I figure if the Jet triple is actually moved over to be the transfer lift that is a roughly a 10 minute ride, then you would have to get on the Metro which is another 10+ minutes. Assuming all the lifts close at 4:00, you would have to be in line to get back at 3:30. I'd rather ski to the closing bell than spend the end of the day riding one lift sideways across the mtn and then riding another snail paced lift just to get back to my car.
How about as another option to have the unload area directly above the Metro Quad where the old Tbar used to end. The area is already cleared, gives you direct access to stateside and wouldn't interfere with skier flow.
I think this makes the most sense out of all of them. Yes, from tramside you would still have to ride the metro to get to the transport lift, but when you return from the west bowl, you would be able to ski directly to stateside--no problemo!
A more realistic option, which I would have thought Jay Peak would have done already (appealing to families and all) is to SPEED UP the Metro Quad and put a loading carpet in!!
Actually you just pointed out the problem. You could not get to this lift from the Metro Quad since it would be above it.
Stopped by the moutain Friday morning. Stateside is no longer flat. Most of the hillside where the Bonnie & lodge were is gone and there is a huge mountain of dirt in the parking lot.
Also there is a lot of trees being removed all along the access roads, a lot of orange tape in the woods. I think they may be putting in the new access road this summer and realigning the other road, along with more condos.
from_the_NEK
Active member
How do you get over or under the Flyer?
Boston Bulldog
Member
I'm thinkng it may be a gondola
