Smellytele
Well-known member
I have done that 3 or 4 times - It works out great. Usually do Burke then Jay then Cannon.
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Jay Peak Drops Lift Ticket Prices
- Thread starter riverc0il
- Start date
I have done that 3 or 4 times - It works out great. Usually do Burke then Jay then Cannon.
drjeff
Well-known member
In one sense if you want a basic idea about what the market will tolerate with respect to ticket prices. Take a rough look at what theme parks are charging for a day. Since it's basically the same discretionary income of it's customers that theme parks and ski areas are both targeting.
When I was down with my family in Orlando about 2 weeks ago. Adult 1 day admissions were in the $75 to $90 range (more if you wanted to add some "perks" such as extra parks, fast pass lines, etc). The parks were pretty crowded, so those price points work. Sure, just like with multiday ski area tickets, the price per day goes down, there are "locals" discounts, lodging discounts, etc., and I'll fully give you that probably 95% of the folks in the parks aren't anything resembling a semi regular skier/rider, but they're still making the choice to spend $X per day of their discretionary income on a day of fun and entertainment, which is exactly the same descsion that so many people make when they choose to go skiing/riding for a day too.
Jay's choice with their ticket costs this year, and Steve Wright's HONEST answer as to what some of the major factors were to led that choice being made (other revenue sources at the area) is exactly why there's a bit of hypocrisy when many folks who continuously decry higher and higher pass prices each year, but yet don't spend anything other than the cost of a lift ticket at the ski area. It ALL matters in the end. That $5 burger and $5 beer in the lodge, well that DOES have an effect on what lift tickets will cost. It really is that simple when it comes down to it
When I was down with my family in Orlando about 2 weeks ago. Adult 1 day admissions were in the $75 to $90 range (more if you wanted to add some "perks" such as extra parks, fast pass lines, etc). The parks were pretty crowded, so those price points work. Sure, just like with multiday ski area tickets, the price per day goes down, there are "locals" discounts, lodging discounts, etc., and I'll fully give you that probably 95% of the folks in the parks aren't anything resembling a semi regular skier/rider, but they're still making the choice to spend $X per day of their discretionary income on a day of fun and entertainment, which is exactly the same descsion that so many people make when they choose to go skiing/riding for a day too.
Jay's choice with their ticket costs this year, and Steve Wright's HONEST answer as to what some of the major factors were to led that choice being made (other revenue sources at the area) is exactly why there's a bit of hypocrisy when many folks who continuously decry higher and higher pass prices each year, but yet don't spend anything other than the cost of a lift ticket at the ski area. It ALL matters in the end. That $5 burger and $5 beer in the lodge, well that DOES have an effect on what lift tickets will cost. It really is that simple when it comes down to it
fbrissette
Well-known member
I never complained about the increase in price. I expect the price of a pass to go up and to reflect an increase in operation costs, as well as to reflect the investments made to better my skiing experience.
This was posted by Steve Wright in March on the 'Real Jay Peak ski report'.
The "12%" was an increase off of last year's pre-season rate which,incidentally, was the same rate as the year prior. As much as we'd like to keep rates flat every year, it seems our suppliers-those providing electricity, foodstuffs, etc., don't share the same ideology.
Absolutely zero problem with this. I thought the increase was reasonable and that the value was still awesome. I certainly expect a steep hike when the West Bowl opens up.
My beef is as follow: The Jay Peak homeowners in Jay's rental program got a 5% hike in Jay Peak's cut (as mentioned by JPTracker), on the basis that costs (especially marketing) were on the increase. Season passes went up no matter how they spin it (I got the receipts to prove it). And then, several months later we get the 'hey folks, we made so much more money than planned that we are going to decrease ticket prices by 15%'.
I totally get that they are trying to get more people to come and spend money on the waterpark and other great amenities. Families that come for the first time are blown away by the place and do in fact come back. I just don't understand why Steve is surprised that homeowners and season pass holders are not totally pleased with measures that will put more people on the hill, and that are partly subsidized by their own fee increase. That's it.
can you rent out property yourself, or is it to avoid the hassle? What about new sites like Airbnb or similar?
fbrissette
Well-known member
Yes. A lot of owners rent directly using sites like VRBO. Jay peak strength is being able to provide waterpark and ski passes in their packages with little extra cost to them. Home owners have to factor that into their rates.
Sorry FB, but I'm not exactly sure 'Absolutely zero problem with this' accurately characterizes your response to paying more for your season pass this year. Though, as usual, it's possible/probable that I'm missing something here.
And as to a relationship between an additional 5% being asked of homeowners in our rental program and a direct or indirect pass-along through less expensive lift tickets, that's not at all the case. As I've said here, despite hitting the cutting cutting room floor in your position, lowering lift tickets is by no means a benevolent play--it's in place to increase volume. And we think that will happen.
You may feel that an additional 5% isn't fair. Unsurprisingly, I have a different take. The 60:40 split has been in place for more than 20 years. In the past 5 years alone, our marketing spends (on behalf of the resort and homeowners in the rental program alike) have gone up by a factor of 6. That's so far beyond unreal, I find it crazy I have to mention that it's unreal. But there you go. As well, the best way to gauge the importance, and thus value, of the Rental Program, might be to do it yourself. Market your unit yourself. Sell it yourself. See what it costs to buy lift tickets and waterpark passes at rack rate before including them in your 'package'. Cover the costs of cleaning it, replacing linens and incidentals (which, as you know yet don't mention, are now being covered by the resort), cover the costs of a central reservation service, a front desk staff, a security staff and other associated departments that your guest comes in contact with during the course of their stay), and then you'll be in a much better position to gauge whether the additional 5% makes sense. If it does, come back into the program. If it doesn't, keep doing it yourself.
Seems like a good test to me.
And as to a relationship between an additional 5% being asked of homeowners in our rental program and a direct or indirect pass-along through less expensive lift tickets, that's not at all the case. As I've said here, despite hitting the cutting cutting room floor in your position, lowering lift tickets is by no means a benevolent play--it's in place to increase volume. And we think that will happen.
You may feel that an additional 5% isn't fair. Unsurprisingly, I have a different take. The 60:40 split has been in place for more than 20 years. In the past 5 years alone, our marketing spends (on behalf of the resort and homeowners in the rental program alike) have gone up by a factor of 6. That's so far beyond unreal, I find it crazy I have to mention that it's unreal. But there you go. As well, the best way to gauge the importance, and thus value, of the Rental Program, might be to do it yourself. Market your unit yourself. Sell it yourself. See what it costs to buy lift tickets and waterpark passes at rack rate before including them in your 'package'. Cover the costs of cleaning it, replacing linens and incidentals (which, as you know yet don't mention, are now being covered by the resort), cover the costs of a central reservation service, a front desk staff, a security staff and other associated departments that your guest comes in contact with during the course of their stay), and then you'll be in a much better position to gauge whether the additional 5% makes sense. If it does, come back into the program. If it doesn't, keep doing it yourself.
Seems like a good test to me.
Steve,
Thanks for the response. I guess what got me was a statement in your first post:
This made it seem like profits from the Water Park and Lodging was subsidizing the lift tickets. Now that you clarified this and that you are lowering prices in hopes of increase volume to increase profits overall I get it but it didn't go over that way at first.
Thanks for the response. I guess what got me was a statement in your first post:
This made it seem like profits from the Water Park and Lodging was subsidizing the lift tickets. Now that you clarified this and that you are lowering prices in hopes of increase volume to increase profits overall I get it but it didn't go over that way at first.
Right JPT, but if you had gone ahead and decided to bold the second half of my quote--'I wouldn't be in a position to gamble on a volume play', it becomes pretty clear that the financial flexibility is allowing us to gamble- not purely being based on as savings. Sorry I didn't communicate/you didn't receive that.
billski
Active member
IMO, very few first timers come for just a day. They are looking for a demographic of 2 40's-ish parents with two kids. You always get a break on multi day tickets and last I checked, even a better deal from the off-slope lodging around the valley.
fbrissette
Well-known member
Put this on the language barrier. It seems that I have a hard time expressing my thoughts in english in this particular instance. It is not about money and never was. I would have been the first one to tell you that the price of season passes was too low, when compared to the price of day tickets, and when compared to the competition. The frustration (and that's too strong of a word cause I'm far from losing sleep over it), comes from the mixed message. To some of your customers you tell:'operating costs are up so we have to raise your rates'. while you tell other customers 'income are on the rise, so we'll cut your rates'. You don't owe us any explanation on the rationale behind your decisions, but in the absence of any such explanation, the feeling everyone got (and I have discussed this with just a few passhodlers to be honest) is that we subsidize day trippers. Increase my rates to open up the west bowl and that's fine. Increase my rates to change lifts and that's fine. Increase my rates because the cost of snowmaking has been up, or because you made snow late in the season and that's fine. Increase my rates to lower the rates of day trippers ? That I don't like. Hope this is clearer cause this is my last attempt !
You will be surprised, but i do agree with you. I was talking on behalf of other homeowners (friends and neighbours) who are not very happy. I do not rent my unit and will never rent it. We are having way too much fun as it is, and having to store my personal stuff and empty the fridge every time I leave makes little sense to me.
It appears that quite a few homeowners are gonna go on their own. We'll see if they come back. I think this would be a very good year to stick with Jay's rental pool. With many units opting out, it's a gimme that occupancy rates will increase.
riverc0il
New member
And this is why you'll never see another day ticket price drop any where in New England ever again.
Post of the month to Riv.
I appreciate the update Francois. Like any business, prices are going to up and down across various products and categories. Sounds like you understand that the SP needed to/was justified in going up and that, somehow, you're relating the drop in lift tickets as somehow being subsidized by an incremental 5% in rental income. Nice to hear that you , now, understand it is not. And on a side note, all but 9 homeowners have decided to come back into the rental pool. Not quite the predicated landslide, but a few certainly. We hope there's plenty of snow, this season, to motivate visits into every possible corner--regardless of who manages it.
sw
I appreciate the update Francois. Like any business, prices are going to up and down across various products and categories. Sounds like you understand that the SP needed to/was justified in going up and that, somehow, you're relating the drop in lift tickets as somehow being subsidized by an incremental 5% in rental income. Nice to hear that you , now, understand it is not. And on a side note, all but 9 homeowners have decided to come back into the rental pool. Not quite the predicated landslide, but a few certainly. We hope there's plenty of snow, this season, to motivate visits into every possible corner--regardless of who manages it.
sw
And this is why you'll never see another day ticket price drop any where in New England ever again.
fbrissette
Well-known member
This is definitely the one thing we will all agree upon !
Now, if you could just do something about that planned ski run past Timbuktu...
fbrissette
Well-known member
No good deed goes unpunished !And this is why you'll never see another day ticket price drop any where in New England ever again.
playoutside
New member
A group of us rented this home a couple years ago for a long weekend. it was a great house for our group. owner was easy to deal with too
http://www.killiam.net/
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
This was probably the late-90s to early-00s, right? That's when I'd see him there, and I was almost always based at Spruce (where the kiddies would be dropped off).
ScottySkis
Well-known member
Rich people are kind of dumb when it comes to tipping or taking care of their employees in my experience.
bobbutts
New member
ride and ski card
"$10 off lift tickets, 7 days a week, & holidays.
PLUS four 2-for-1 coupons good any day, non-holiday"
"$10 off lift tickets, 7 days a week, & holidays.
PLUS four 2-for-1 coupons good any day, non-holiday"
jaytrem
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2007
- Messages
- 2,199
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So Mr. Pink really doesn't tip? That's pretty funny.
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