Killington is going to open before Sunday River this season.

[steamboat1]

I would have preferred a HSQ instead of the gondola. I would ski off the peak more often.

Same here. I just don't like riding in the box. You can almost get to everything on the mountain without riding the box. The only time you need to get to the peak is if you want to ski upper catwalk, upper downdraft, upper cascade, upper escapade or helter skelter which are all relatively short shots. The few other trails you miss aren't even worth mentioning, everything else is accessable without the box. On those cold windy days when everyone is lined up for the gondi I'm that guy you see riding the chairs. Call me crazy but that's what I prefer.

 

[steamboat1]

Yes, there is. Alta's Collins lift is a HSQ with a mid-station.

Re HSQ mid-station: The only one I know of in the east is at Le Massif. Are there others?

Snowmass has one for a six pack, as well.

Yeah but according to some dip shit on here they don't work.

 

[deadheadskier]

Someone has a problem with reading comprehension. My statement was regarding the gondola vs the old double chair. Never was a HSQ part of the discussion, mid station or not. Yes I too prefer chairs to gondolas. However not the old double. Now you think long and hard about what makes more sense, the current gondola or old double. With the double you had a near 15 minute ride and a 45 minute wait for the chair. You also had vastly longer lift lines at the Snowdon and Superstar chairs due to the reduced capacity in the area. Throw in a very expensive investment in the Peak lodge and a desire to have that facility available to generate revenue year round in any weather condition and it becomes pretty obvious why that old chair went away.

 

[Edd]

Yeah but according to some dip shit on here they don't work.

Wasn't he just knocking a slow ride on an old double?

 

[steamboat1]

I'm not going to get into why a mid-station HSQ wouldn't work for that lift even though it's completely obvious with today's Killington.

Did I miss something?

 

[steamboat1]

Wasn't he just knocking a slow ride on an old double?

Yeah he also complains about having to drive 2 hours to get to a ski area or not being able to pick out his seat on planes. Some people just act like old wash women.

 

[machski]

Not at first, but his comment on year round use of the peak lodge would negate a HSQ with Mid Station over a Gondi.

Did I miss something?

 

[joshua segal]

I doubt they lose many skier visits because of a stairwell that you take once or twice a day when Killington is the only open mountain.

My sense is that the early season crowd at Killington is bad news. The stairway (about 250 steps) does keep the crowd down and provides something special for the early season diehards. When Killington decided to go after the early season business again, I sent a compliment to management on the stairway. The response I received was "that the stairway was one of the best investments (in terms of return on investment) that Killington had ever made." I further heard it was about $60K worth, but that is pure hearsay.

 

[steamboat1]

Not at first, but his comment on year round use of the peak lodge would negate a HSQ with Mid Station over a Gondi.

They make bubble chairs you know. Actually they seem to have become quite popular lately.

 

[deadheadskier]

Steamboat... How many 2 hour day trips do you make each season?

 

[steamboat1]

Steamboat... How many 2 hour day trips do you make each season?

Actually quite a few. It takes me at least 2 hours to get to Stowe or Smuggs from our house in VT. Mt. Snow would be about the same too but I'd only go there to shorten my drive home. I've driven to Cannon, Attitash, Whiteface & Gore for day trips from our house too.

 

[Highway Star]

My sense is that the early season crowd at Killington is bad news. The stairway (about 250 steps) does keep the crowd down and provides something special for the early season diehards. When Killington decided to go after the early season business again, I sent a compliment to management on the stairway. The response I received was "that the stairway was one of the best investments (in terms of return on investment) that Killington had ever made." I further heard it was about $60K worth, but that is pure hearsay.

Well, consider it like building a complicated deck at 4,100 ft on the side of a mountain, so $60k sounds about right. While I'm glad we have it, yes the crowding is pretty bad on a busy day with good weather. The triple will operate at near full capacity, except when they have to skip chairs, so figure they do about 2,000 or more skier visits throughout a busy weekend day. Lift lines can be 20 minutes long, less if you use the singles line. The trails aren't too crowded, once they get multiple trails open. Its much less crowded on weekdays, so that's the time to go if you have the option.

Their returns are probably pretty good. The snowmaking is a bit expensive, but they only need to blow about 2-3ft of snow on those trails, which can then be opened pretty quickly and start producing revenue. There are a surprising number of ticket buyers, many people come in from everywhere in the northeast, and there are many passholders from other areas that aren't open yet. Some people use the two for one deal, but many don't. Only the diehard passholders are out on the weekends, most people sit it out until they are open top to bottom or terrain expansion starts. They have a beer garden at the triple base, and I would expect the peak lodge and KBL to be open this year.

I bring a light ski carry pack with some snacks, beverages, and shoes in it. At the end of the day, put on the shoes and put skis and boots on the pack. While its actually slower to do it this way, it's considerably more comfortable.

 

[AdironRider]

Considering the length of the walkway and the fact that it is on top of a mountain, 60k seems like a steal.

A new deck for your house will probably run 10-20k depending (not DIY), so conceivably, this was a screaming deal considering the payoff.

 

[Highway Star]

You said everyone not most people. In an ideal world they'd have this HSQ mid-station..

We've discussed the possibility of a midstation on the K-1. Technically it could be done, but I'm guessing it would cost about $1m or more. Probably custom engineered. Constructing something of that size halfway down cascade would be quite the challenge as there is no good access. The footprint of it would have an impact on how cascade skis, and would need major trail regrading and possibly widening. Would it be on the ground or up on a deck? How it would function is debatable, would it be uphill side only, requiring going uphill first to return to the base, or both sides with added complexity? Would it be possible to bypass the midstation, or would it be available mid season for accessing the peak when skiing the canyon without going to the base, which would add to the K-1 ride time and reduce its capacity at the base. All things to consider.

This would allow greatly expanded terrain options early season, as you would have cascade and downdraft available, increasing their capacity to 3-4k skier visits per day, while providing quick access to the peak lodge, both of which greatly increase revenue. As it sits, they only do 2-3 weekends with the stairway before being open top to bottom, so there really isn't enough time to get a good payoff for such a large project. If going forward they have problems getting top to bottom by mid-November, and are only able to open the triple for Thanksgiving weekend half the time, it may become a more viable option for providing high end destination skiing for that holiday weekend.

 

[Highway Star]

Considering the length of the walkway and the fact that it is on top of a mountain, 60k seems like a steal.

A new deck for your house will probably run 10-20k depending (not DIY), so conceivably, this was a screaming deal considering the payoff.

Also consider there are no concrete footings (or very few), most of it sits directly on rock. There's no fancy plastic decking either, its all pressure treated wood with grated metal stairs.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yes, there is. Alta's Collins lift is a HSQ with a mid-station.

Yes, Alta's Collins has an angle station with a midload. Canyon's Orange Bubble has a mid unload. So it could be done if they had enough room.

And if memory serves me right the K-1 was an afterthought because Poma had made the Gondola for another resort and they cancelled. They offered it to ASC/K for a discount.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[steamboat1]

We've discussed the possibility of a midstation on the K-1. Technically it could be done, but I'm guessing it would cost about $1m or more. Probably custom engineered. Constructing something of that size halfway down cascade would be quite the challenge as there is no good access. The footprint of it would have an impact on how cascade skis, and would need major trail regrading and possibly widening. Would it be on the ground or up on a deck? How it would function is debatable, would it be uphill side only, requiring going uphill first to return to the base, or both sides with added complexity? Would it be possible to bypass the midstation, or would it be available mid season for accessing the peak when skiing the canyon without going to the base, which would add to the K-1 ride time and reduce its capacity at the base. All things to consider.

This would allow greatly expanded terrain options early season, as you would have cascade and downdraft available, increasing their capacity to 3-4k skier visits per day, while providing quick access to the peak lodge, both of which greatly increase revenue. As it sits, they only do 2-3 weekends with the stairway before being open top to bottom, so there really isn't enough time to get a good payoff for such a large project. If going forward they have problems getting top to bottom by mid-November, and are only able to open the triple for Thanksgiving weekend half the time, it may become a more viable option for providing high end destination skiing for that holiday weekend.

The only HS midstation I've seen is the one at Le Massif (pictured). It really doesn't take up much room (it's very narrow) & is on the same line as the lift anyway. I'd imagine they'd place it at the same location as the old midstation. I'm not suggesting they do it now but it's something they should have thought about when K-1 was originally installed. This would be for uploading only. If you wanted to take the lift to the bottom you'd first have to ride to the summit & then ride down.

 

[steamboat1]

And if memory serves me right the K-1 was an afterthought because Poma had made the Gondola for another resort and they cancelled. They offered it to ASC/K for a discount.

The Skyeship gondola went in before K-1.

 

[AdironRider]

The only modification K1 needs is to get rid of those spectacular 80's wraps on the gondi cars with images of lasers and the like.

 

[skiNEwhere]

We've discussed the possibility of a midstation on the K-1. Technically it could be done, but I'm guessing it would cost about $1m or more. Probably custom engineered. Constructing something of that size halfway down cascade would be quite the challenge as there is no good access. The footprint of it would have an impact on how cascade skis, and would need major trail regrading and possibly widening. Would it be on the ground or up on a deck? How it would function is debatable, would it be uphill side only, requiring going uphill first to return to the base, or both sides with added complexity? Would it be possible to bypass the midstation, or would it be available mid season for accessing the peak when skiing the canyon without going to the base, which would add to the K-1 ride time and reduce its capacity at the base. All things to consider.

This would allow greatly expanded terrain options early season, as you would have cascade and downdraft available, increasing their capacity to 3-4k skier visits per day, while providing quick access to the peak lodge, both of which greatly increase revenue. As it sits, they only do 2-3 weekends with the stairway before being open top to bottom, so there really isn't enough time to get a good payoff for such a large project. If going forward they have problems getting top to bottom by mid-November, and are only able to open the triple for Thanksgiving weekend half the time, it may become a more viable option for providing high end destination skiing for that holiday weekend.

Everything you mentioned is technically possible. The Palmer HSQ at Timberline is a classic example, almost a minor marvel of ski lift engineering. The lift is closed in winter due to the severe, constant winds, and build up of rime. It opens up in spring, but passes over the mid-load station. In summer, the haul rope is lowered and re-routed into the mid-load station, which is only used for glacier skiing since the glacier doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the lift. I can't see any use for a mid station at Killington other than early season. The average skier isn't going to want to off-load onto a double black. It wouldn't be that simple either since the tensioning system of the lift can only allow so much slack. And it's probably not even close to being economically feasible. But it is possible.



Said Palmer lift:

Mid-station Bypassed

Routed through mid-station